The Best People with Nicolle Wallace
MS NOW, Nicolle Wallace
Who are The Best People? They’re the most magnetic and engaging people in the room; the ones who know how to get that extra something out of every collaboration, connection, and endeavor. These people are the best at what they do and know how to bring out the best in others. Now, in an era of social and political upheaval, The Best People share lessons that we can all use. Listen as Nicolle Wallace seeks varied perspectives on how to keep reaching for truth, decency, and connection.
Episodes
Aaron Sorkin Thinks You Can Handle the Truth
Aaron Sorkin is acutely aware of the criticism that his work is too optimistic — and with “The Social Reckoning,” he’s doubling down. “I just like when an audience feels two inches taller than they did when they walked in,” he tells Nicolle. The Oscar-and-Emmy award-winning writer and director has inspired countless political hopefuls with “The West Wing,” including Nicolle, who envisioned a place for herself in the White House after watching Allison Janney’s portrayal of Press Secretary C.J. Cregg. Sorkin follows up 2010’s “The Social Network” by assessing Facebook in the age of Trump: telling the story of whistleblower Frances Haugen’s decision to release internal documents surrounding misinformation and potential harms from the platform, alongside a now older Mark Zuckerberg as he reckons with the power of the technology he’s created. Sorkin chose to intentionally release the movie prior to the upcoming midterms — knowing that, if there’s a moment for optimism, it’s right now. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Michael Lewis Has a Warning About the State of Our Soul
If Michael Lewis has a superpower, it’s the ability to make anything — even the most esoteric subject — interesting. Now, one of the country’s biggest nonfiction writers is tackling Elon Musk, DOGE, his attempts to gut the federal government — and the public servants who resisted him. In “Blockers," named after Musk’s term for the public servants who pushed back against DOGE, Lewis puts the spotlight on six unsung heroes of the federal bureaucracy who did what they could to save the agencies they served. Speaking to Nicolle, Lewis says that “it’s a miracle” these people chose to do the jobs they do, and that DOGE ended up being a “great distraction” that caused chaos and allowed Donald Trump to seize control of the government. Lewis says he wants us to pay attention to the stories of these federal employees because they remind us of our "better selves." Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Judge Esther Salas: This Country Has Given Us Too Much for Us to Abandon It
Judge Esther Salas knows what it’s like to overcome a dark moment. On July 19th, 2020, the U.S. district judge suffered a devastating loss: a man who had been a plaintiff in her court years prior murdered her only son and severely injured her husband. Speaking with Nicolle about the state of the country amidst growing political violence and President Trump’s charged rhetoric against judges, Judge Salas says she thinks America could learn from her personal experience: “Norms have been broken, rules have been shattered,” she observed. “But just like we’ve done in the past, we’re gonna pick up the pieces.” With an unbending belief in the sanctity of the American justice system and a willingness to forgive, Judge Salas teaches us rebuilding is possible, even at its most daunting. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Anthony Scaramucci Says Trump Made All the Wrong Moves
Anthony Scaramucci has stories to tell. He joins Nicolle for this special episode as part of the new “Nicolle Wallace Presents: 92NY on MS NOW” series to discuss the roots of our political divisions: the uniquely American conditions that allowed Trump to ascend to the nation’s highest office. The two former White House communications directors discuss Scaramucci’s new book, “All the Wrong Moves,” his 11-day tenure at the Trump administration and the path forward and away from this difficult moment. “I think it will end in darkness for Donald Trump,” he says. But “it'll end with a brighter horizon for America — cause we're gonna fix this.” “Nicolle Wallace Presents: 92NY on MS NOW” will bring conversations from the 92nd Street Y in Manhattan to MS's weekend lineup. The series will feature conversations led by Nicolle and Rachel Maddow with figures including Robert Downey Jr., Ari Emanuel, and Malcolm Gladwell. Tune in Sunday, October 4th at 8pm ET to catch the first episode. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Pete Buttigieg: We're in a "Make or Break" Moment
Pete Buttigieg thinks this is a “make-or-break” moment in American politics. As Americans continue to struggle economically and President Trump’s focus seems elsewhere, the former US Secretary of Transportation argues that the moments in history that were the hardest "mattered the most,” asserting that “the 2020’s are gonna be remembered like that.” Buttigieg looks ahead to what he’d like to see if Democrats take control of government after the midterms, including a big one: Supreme Court reform. He also hopes there will be accountability from Pete Hegseth for the ways in which the Iran War has affected America’s international reputation, and for Marco Rubio to answer for lying to Congress about the devastating impacts of gutting USAID. Above all else, however, Buttigieg’s call is for everyday citizens: “The biggest, most important thing you get to do is vote.” Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Ted Boutrous Jr.: “Today was a Feel-Good Moment for the First Amendment”
Meet the man who just won the first round in one of the biggest First Amendment fights in years. Ted Boutrous Jr. has been the lawyer behind some of the cases that have made history in recent years: from the fight for marriage equality to then-CNN correspondent Jim Acosta’s lawsuit to get his press badge back when the Trump White House revoked it in 2018. Now, he’s representing CNN, Politico and MS NOW after Donald Trump revoked the press credentials of their journalists over coverage he didn’t like. Nicolle spoke with Boutrous just after a judge ordered the Trump administration to restore the press access of the three outlets. Boutrous told Nicolle that revoking White House access for three news organizations is “like nothing we’ve ever seen before” — and that in this moment, it’s more important than ever to “hold the line” in the fight for press freedom. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
John Heilemann: Trump will Pay at the Ballot Box
John Heilemann thinks it’s time for America to change the channel on President Trump. The “Impolitic” podcast host and chief political columnist at Puck sees the Commander for what he is: a “loser” for the Republican party using the White House as a “giant profit-making self-enrichment grift.” He and Nicolle discuss Trump’s various attempts to interfere with American elections, reflect on “Game Change” — the Heilemann co-penned book that was turned into a 2012 film starring Sarah Paulson as Nicolle Wallace — and reminisce about their time together on-air. They also discuss exponentially growing technological threats as AI figureheads begin sounding the alarm about their own products and discuss how, ironically, this could be the nonpartisan issue to mend a divided political climate. “I think it’s going to reshape our politics,” says Heilemann, noting that, for all of its terrifying implications, “it’s an enormous opportunity, politically” for whoever can take the lead. A Note to Listeners: As the 2026 midterm elections heat up, MS NOW is headed to the Lone Star State. Join more than a dozen of your favorite hosts - including Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, Jen Psaki, Michael Steele, Ali Velshi and more - in Arlington, Texas on September 26 for a day of community and conversation about the issues that matter most to you. Get your tickets at ms.now/together. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Dan Harris Wants Us to Stop Worrying Alone
Dan Harris knows that the most important fight is the one happening within. Reflecting on his journey of self-regulation, the former ABC anchor recalls a news report on Good Morning America on a warm June morning in 2004 where he — very publicly — had a panic attack live on-air. It was a huge wake up call for Harris, he says. “I realized I needed to change my life.” More than two decades later, the “10% Happier” podcast host joins Nicolle days after the debut of his two new series: MS NOW’s “The Week in Sanity” and “Never Worry Alone.” They discuss the benefits of meditation, argue against the toxicity of modern wellness culture and assert that despair is one of the enemies of democracy. In an anxious and polarized political climate, Harris encourages people to lean on each other, noting that “trying to do it alone is a really reliable route to suffering.” In fact, if salvation exists from pessimism about the future, it’s in the form of love. “When you do good, it feels good.”“The Week in Sanity” and “Never Worry Alone” are available to MS NOW Members. Become an MS NOW Member by visiting ms.now/membership.A Note to Listeners: As the 2026 midterm elections heat up, MS NOW is headed to the Lone Star State. Join more than a dozen of your favorite hosts - including Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, Jen Psaki, Michael Steele, Ali Velshi and more - in Arlington, Texas on September 26 for a day of community and conversation about the issues that matter most to you. Get your tickets at ms.now/together. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Julia Curlee: “This is my Country, Too.”
Julia Curlee brings stories of a remarkable career, recounting her time as a CIA analyst and as an intelligence briefer for Vice President Mike Pence. She begins, however, by talking about the most “unremarkable” aspects of her tenure: up until she was fired in 2025 by the Trump administration for being transgender, Curlee recalls a tolerant government and a good working relationship with Pence. The former Vice President “used the intelligence community the way it was designed,” she tells Nicolle, as opposed to some current intelligence personnel who concern themselves only with “providing the president with information that he wants to hear.” She points to this shift as one of many examples of how the second Trump term is exponentially more dangerous than the first, addressing the United States’ declining international reputation amidst the war in Iran and the ways in which the government uses internal division as a tool to distract from their failure to improve the lives of Americans. And still, she refuses to stand down in the fight to preserve democracy: “This is my country, too.” Here is Julia’s piece in The Atlantic: The Wrong Kind of AmericanA Note to Listeners: As the 2026 midterm elections heat up, MS NOW is headed to the Lone Star State. Join more than a dozen of your favorite hosts - including Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, Jen Psaki, Michael Steele, Ali Velshi and more - in Arlington, Texas on September 26 for a day of community and conversation about the issues that matter most to you. Get your tickets at ms.now/together. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Best of The Best: Chris Hayes Makes His Curiosity the Antidote to Anxiety
This week, we’re revisiting an episode we recorded back in May with MSNOW’s own Chris Hayes. Please enjoy! We’ll be back with a new episode next week. Chris Hayes’ antidote to anxiety is always curiosity. Whether on TV with "All In," on his podcast (aptly named “Why Is This Happening?”), or writing about our waning attention spans in his latest book, he looks to make sense of this era’s firehose of information by seeking out the reasons behind the very human decisions we make. This curiosity prompted a deep dive series on his podcast into artificial intelligence: "The AI End Game," tracing AI's evolution to how it will impact our democracy and what guardrails need to be applied. This week, Chris joins Nicolle to talk about how Democrats can rebuild faith in government in a “low trust” democracy, what we can learn from our political past “while not being obsessed with it and trapped in it” and what deeper questions we should be asking about AI. And in his search to understand this technology, he discovered an unintended source of inspiration because “it brings us back in some ways to what we find beautiful and thrilling about being human.” Search "Why Is This Happening? The Chris Hayes Podcast" to listen to the full series, "The AI End Game." A Note to Listeners: As the 2026 midterm elections heat up, MS NOW is headed to the Lone Star State. Join more than a dozen of your favorite hosts - including Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, Jen Psaki, Michael Steele, Ali Velshi and more - in Arlington, Texas on September 26 for a day of community and conversation about the issues that matter most to you. Get your tickets at ms.now/together. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Tim Miller Thinks Trump is Losing His Grip
Tim Miller has some ideas about how Democrats can seize this moment as President Trump’s poll numbers continue to decline. A GOP strategist turned never-Trumper, the host of “The Bulwark Daily” podcast now commits himself to dispelling the MAGA myth full time. “Hopefully, that ripples out in a way that’s useful,” he says. He and Nicolle identify a shift in Trump’s more casual supporters, as the manosphere sours on the president and Tim hears MAGA focus group participants acknowledge that Trump “doesn't seem like he's focused on me at all." Miller also challenges center-left Democratic politicians to identify which faults of the party allowed Trump to win a second term (“What’s on your red hat?”). Looking to the midterms and the start of the presidential race next year, Miller says that the “scariest” half of the Trump presidency lies ahead — and we’ll need to stay sharp. “Take a vacation,” he tells Nicolle. “We’re gonna have so much work to do.” Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Tim Snyder on the “Tiny Infinitesimal Amount of Courage” We Need
Tim Snyder sees through the myth of President Trump’s strength. “He’s not actually strong,” the “On Tyranny” author and historian tells Nicolle, likening the Commander in Chief to the smoke and mirrors that build up the image of the Wizard of Oz. “He’s not actually even that good at being corrupt.” As a scholar of autocracies and failed experiments in democracy, Snyder expresses his disappointment with the American disposition that freedom is guaranteed “because it’s America,” telling Nicolle that we make ourselves more vulnerable by assuming that this democracy will continue to thrive on its own. It must be protected and fought for, he argues — and Americans must take hold of the story, even if it’s uncomfortable. Stressing the importance of the midterms, his advice to voters is to act and engage: “[Trump] only wins if everybody thinks they can do nothing,” he says. “If everybody — or even most people — think that they can do a little bit, it's game over.” A Note to Listeners: As the 2026 midterm elections heat up, MS NOW is headed to the Lone Star State. Join more than a dozen of your favorite hosts - including Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, Jen Psaki, Michael Steele, Ali Velshi and more - in Arlington, Texas on September 26 for a day of community and conversation about the issues that matter most to you. Get your tickets at ms.now/together. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Marc Elias: We’re Not Heading Towards the Precipice — “We’re There”
Marc Elias is adamant: what’s dangerous in this era is that many people think President Trump’s second term is just business as usual. As the administration works to undermine fair elections ahead of the midterms, the chair of Elias Law Group and founder of “Democracy Docket” joins Nicolle to analyze Trump’s tactics — and why the Democratic party needs to stop operating on the “presumption that there is good faith” on the opposing team. In Elias’ telling, “Democrats need to be the party that is fighting corruption, is fighting the restriction of the [voting] franchise, is fighting for people to be able to influence their government.” And while he’s concerned over what a post-midterm Trump administration might unleash, Elias makes it clear that once Trump leaves office, he won’t let the president's allies forget their mistakes — and he believes the world won’t either. A Note to Listeners: As the 2026 midterm elections heat up, MS NOW is headed to the Lone Star State. Join more than a dozen of your favorite hosts - including Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, Jen Psaki, Michael Steele, Ali Velshi and more - in Arlington, Texas on September 26 for a day of community and conversation about the issues that matter most to you. Get your tickets at ms.now/together. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Brian Driscoll on the Hollowing Out of the FBI: "It's Devastating”
Brian Driscoll doesn’t have to be a “hopeful guy” — and yet, he is. A year ago, he was fired as acting director of the FBI after resisting demands to hand over the names of agents who worked on January 6 insurrection investigations. Now, the career special agent joins Nicolle to reflect on his decades-long tenure at the department and the state of the FBI under its current leadership. “The American people deserve better than any agenda can offer,” he says. “They deserve selfless service.” He talks candidly about the events leading up to his firing, the infamous clerical error that led to his promotion as acting head of the bureau and the “devastating” political retribution campaign carried out by the Trump administration against veterans of the agency. Still, Driscoll believes his former colleagues “will not fall into complacency” and stands firm on the fact that — once the fog created by the second Trump term has cleared — countless exiled public servants are standing by, ready to rebuild. A Note to Listeners: As the 2026 midterm elections heat up, MS NOW is headed to the Lone Star State. Join more than a dozen of your favorite hosts - including Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, Jen Psaki, Michael Steele, Ali Velshi and more - in Arlington, Texas on September 26 for a day of community and conversation about the issues that matter most to you. Get your tickets at ms.now/together. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Sue Gordon: Trump’s Approach to Intel is “Breathtakingly Reckless"
Sue Gordon is indefatigable. Nicolle calls her a “unicorn”: a rare case of somebody who served with honor and integrity as the Principal Deputy Director of National Intelligence — and who Donald Trump, at least for a while, kept around. “I am for America,” Gordon says, declaring that as her North Star. Throughout her decorated career in intelligence, Gordon has always understood that telling the truth is imperative in keeping the president informed and the nation safe. She talks bluntly about the administration putting innocent people in harm’s way in Iran, calls Jay Clayton’s refusal to state that Joe Biden won the 2020 election during his confirmation hearing “100% disqualifying” and points to Trump being “more cruel” in his second term. She does not believe, however, that the president cannot be reasoned with. Taking a beat, she says: “Maybe I need to call him.” A Note to Listeners: As the 2026 midterm elections heat up, MS NOW is headed to the Lone Star State. Join more than a dozen of your favorite hosts - including Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, Jen Psaki, Michael Steele, Ali Velshi and more - in Arlington, Texas on September 26 for a day of community and conversation about the issues that matter most to you. Get your tickets at ms.now/together. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Heather Cox Richardson on America’s Vibe Shift
If historian Heather Cox Richardson ever had an agenda, it’d be protecting democracy. The history professor and author of the “Letters from an American” Substack joins Nicolle this week to consider the knock-on effects of economic pain at the grocery store and unpredictability at the podium on voter’s perception of Trumpism. She reflects on violence from ICE officers in her home state of Maine, the whiplash messaging in the war with Iran and concerns about the cyclosporiasis outbreak — which she sees as emblematic of places “where the federal government used to protect American families and are no longer.” Throughout, Richardson seamlessly adds historical context to our modern-day political struggles. And she makes it clear that we may already have what we need to recover: “What Americans are really doing in this moment is recovering their agency,” she says. “That’s a vibe shift.” Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Rachel Maddow: Donald Trump is ‘Emotionally Incontinent’
Nicolle sits down with her dear friend and colleague Rachel Maddow for a revealing conversation about the state of the nation and Rachel's coverage of the Trump administration's cruel and violent immigration policies in the wake of two tragic shooting deaths by ICE agents in the span of a week. They also delve into how Trump's erratic behavior, which Rachel describes as his spiral into "emotional incontinence," has made him incapable of making strategic decisions. The duo talks about the dangers of his incoherence where the war with Iran is concerned, his fantastical claims of charging a toll on the Strait of Hormuz and how all of it is building up to a backlash against Trump and the Republican Party. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Jim Acosta Is Still Asking the Tough Questions
Jim Acosta is pretty sure that when 60 Minutes is in trouble, we're all in trouble. A year and a half after stepping down from a storied career as a White House correspondent and anchor at CNN, the independent journalist begins by addressing his departure from the network: “There was intense pressure for me to be gone,” he tells Nicolle. But there is a freedom he now relishes to speak openly and directly about the dark corners the president has awoken in his second term. Calling the 2024 election “a terrible national mistake,” he tells Nicolle that “now we're on the dark side of the moon and the question becomes, can we get out of this on the other side?” They touch on Trump’s financial schemes, the public framing of Hunter Biden’s struggle with addiction and Acosta’s own experiences covering Trump across his two terms — noting that this is “not the same Donald Trump I covered” in 2016. And as the nation eyes the coming midterms, he notes, "the American people still have the ability to surprise us." Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Sen. Raphael Warnock: "The Power is in the People. It's Not the People in Power”
Senator and Pastor Raphael Warnock recognizes that “Democracy is the house we live in. It's the context in which we get to fight.” Coming off the release of his new book, “The Crooked Places Made Straight,” he joins Nicolle to talk about an increasingly activist court and a system he sees as “overrun with money and corruption.” They begin by addressing why decisions from the Supreme Court on redistricting (Louisiana v. Callais) and ending temporary protected status for Haitian and Syrian immigrants (Mullin v. Doe) have made, in the Senator’s estimation, "the most activist court we have seen certainly in my lifetime.” He also grapples with the blatant grift happening in plain sight by President Trump and his family, and why Republicans only seem to show courage on their way out the door. But even as voting rights are threatened and wealth inequality continues to grow, Senator Warnock urges us to renew our faith — in our beliefs and in one another. And he holds a deep-rooted belief that while these rights are not inevitable, following the example of his mentor, the late John Lewis, “when you don't know what else to do, keep walking. Keep walking across that bridge.” Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Exclusive: Jack Smith Will Not Be Intimidated
Jack Smith is speaking out. In his first news interview since criminally charging Donald Trump and finding himself on the President’s enemies list, the former DOJ Special Counsel sits down with Nicolle Wallace. On “Deadline: White House,” he and Nicolle discuss all things Trump: the threats, the conspiracies, the attacks on the rule of law, and the existential threat he poses to our democracy. In fact, Jack Smith understands better than anybody the kind of crucial moment in which American politics is in. As he tells Nicolle, "we are facing an attack on the rule of law that is different in kind and scope to anything I've seen in my lifetime.” Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Eddie Glaude Wants You to “Tell the Truth With Love, Lit by Rage”
Eddie Glaude believes that, “if we're not angry about our current moment, something's wrong.” Bonded by their experiences covering some of the nation’s most haunting modern stories, the author and Princeton professor joins Nicolle to speak candidly about America as it approaches its 250th anniversary — its complicated history and the sweeping wave of white nationalism surging across it. He touches on his new book, “America, U.S.A.: How Race Shadows the Nation's Anniversaries,” whose first sentence is an assertion of his position: “I do not love America, and never have, especially now." Glaude tells Nicolle that, unlike James Baldwin — who insisted on the right to criticize America because he loved her — he does not “begin with love” when thinking about the nation, and asks a poignant question rooted in his experience as a Black man in America: “Why would you think I would love the country, given my formation?” And yet, however disillusioned, he has hope. “The power of America has always been in its people,” he says. “We just need to get clear on who those people are.” Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Pablo Torre: America’s Story is the Story of the Knicks
Pablo Torre thinks sports are the “skeleton key.” The journalist and Pulitzer Prize-winning host of the podcast of “Pablo Torre Finds Out” joins Nicolle to talk about the potent power of the game: how sports weave their way through the political spiderweb, the colossal economic influence of a winning team franchise and how the game — any game — can bring people together and give strangers commonality. But Pablo is quick to call out the increasingly transactional lines between the economics of sports and politics, and he asks a simple but enduring question: “Who's getting rich?” He and Nicolle analyze the spectacle of a cage match on the White House lawn and the awkward reality of a World Cup host at war with a nation it's hosting. But they also celebrate the historic Knicks win against the Spurs, noting the pure joy emanating from New York City as a poignant example of why we are, perhaps, “a better country if we have more sports fans.” Ultimately, Pablo believes that sports are a throughline that connects us all — allowing a first-generation American born in New York and a California native to laugh about a bad Mets season. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Don Lemon Lives Rent Free in Donald Trump’s Head
Don Lemon was one of the first journalists that “pissed Trump off,” Nicolle charges out of the gate. A year and a half into the president’s second term, the independent journalist and former CNN anchor is upfront about President Trump’s waning energy, noting that his “battery is fading” and that what happened at MSG during Game Three was a vibe shift: “I think that there'll be a reckoning, and I think that that reckoning started at Madison Square Garden with the boos.” Operating independently as the host of "The Don Lemon Show" since 2023, Don joins Nicolle this week to talk about the freedom he has now to meet people where they are, amplifying voices that often get lost in the national conversation. Don also shares the backstory of his arrest and subsequent federal charges after covering a protest in a Minneapolis church earlier this year. But for Don, the volatile political climate only means that the pendulum will, inevitably, swing back. “Something good is going to happen to America — and, I believe, the world,” he says, “because of all this turmoil that we're in right now.” Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Liz Oyer Won’t Be Bullied by Anyone — Even Trump
Liz Oyer understands the transactional nature of the current Justice Department more than most. In March of 2025, she was fired from her position as the US Pardon Attorney for refusing to reinstate actor Mel Gibson’s gun rights. Since then, she’s talked openly about her time in the DOJ and its unceremonious end and she's been targeted by Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche as a result. Still, she continues to shine a light on the abuses within the department she once revered. She joins Nicolle this week for a sober diagnosis of the ways in which Trump has “perverted” her former office and the crucial need to rebuild the public trust in the years ahead. “I don't think anyone ever imagined a president who would say, ‘It's my interests first. What's in the interest of the public isn't primary...’ And that's what Donald Trump has done that's so new and different, and that our laws really aren't built for.” And while Oyer is wide-eyed about the grift within the Trump administration, she is also optimistic that this is an opportunity: “I'd like to be part of the rebuilding in the future... to make it an institution that better serves the American people.” Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Bob Costas Steps Up to the Plate
Bob Costas believes democracy is worth going to bat for. The legendary sportscaster and 12-time host of NBC’s Olympics coverage is no stranger to speaking up when the moment calls — which, as he tells Nicolle this week, is rare: 99.9% of the time he is calling balls and strikes. But when Bob finds an “interstitial moment” to talk about an issue in the zeitgeist (think: domestic violence, CTE from repeated concussions, or recognizing the racially charged name of a pro-team) he is unafraid to use his voice and his platform to speak truth to power. And this moment is no different. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Ben Rhodes: “The Best Speakers Build Movements”
Ben Rhodes believes “we’ve lost the art of speaking to one another.” Amid the megaphone of social media sound bites and the ever-increasing coarseness of our politics, the speechwriter and former Obama Deputy National Security Advisor identifies something that can make or break us: communication. He joins Nicolle this week to talk about his new book, “All We Say,” which tells the story of America through 15 of its most pivotal speeches. From Benjamin Franklin’s carefully crafted argument at the Constitutional Convention to FDR’s “Four Freedoms” speech that defined a national identity on the precipice of a world war, to Barack Obama’s bold address on race in America, Ben traces the uniquely American spirit that lives through the words that have changed the course of history. And while leaders like Vice President JD Vance seek to divide with rhetoric, Ben sees promise in young leaders who are telling a compelling story and painting a clear picture of the America they envision. “The best speakers,” Ben tells Nicolle, “build movements.” Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Ken Burns Knows We’ve Been Here Before
Ken Burns thinks we’re going to make it. An award-winning documentarian, Ken’s celebrated career seeks to find humanity in our country’s imperfect story. He threads this idea through his documentaries about everything from our national pastime (“Baseball”), to our offbeat experiments (“Jazz”), and our violent beginnings as seen through his latest project, “The American Revolution.” As our nation's 250th anniversary approaches, he joins Nicolle at 92NY for an intimate conversation about the American experiment — how its failures and its successes inform each other and nudge the country forward. Ken understands that political turmoil is a hallmark of our democracy; fundamentally, we’ve been here before. To illustrate this, he shares the words of a German Hessian soldier spoken as he surrenders at Yorktown: “Who would have thought a hundred years ago that out of this multitude of rabble could arise a people who could defy kings?” Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Chris Hayes Makes His Curiosity the Antidote to Anxiety
Chris Hayes’ antidote to anxiety is always curiosity. Whether on TV with "All In," on his podcast (aptly named “Why Is This Happening?”), or writing about our waning attention spans in his latest book, he looks to make sense of this era’s firehose of information by seeking out the reasons behind the very human decisions we make. This curiosity prompted a deep dive series on his podcast into artificial intelligence: "The AI End Game," tracing AI's evolution to how it will impact our democracy and what guardrails need to be applied. This week, Chris joins Nicolle to talk about how Democrats can rebuild faith in government in a “low trust” democracy, what we can learn from our political past “while not being obsessed with it and trapped in it” and what deeper questions we should be asking about AI. And in his search to understand this technology, he discovered an unintended source of inspiration because “it brings us back in some ways to what we find beautiful and thrilling about being human.” Search "Why Is This Happening? The Chris Hayes Podcast" to listen to the full series, "The AI End Game." Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Introducing WITHpod: The AI End Game
AI – and coverage of it – is everywhere. But what is artificial intelligence, really, beyond the buzzword? Each week, in a special new miniseries - ‘The AI End Game’ - Chris Hayes is joined by preeminent experts on AI and its effects to help make sense of this revolutionary time in history. The series will feature in-depth conversations with experts, including: The Atlantic journalist Derek Thompson; professor at Wharton and New York Times bestselling author Ethan Mollick, professor of psychology at UC Berkeley and member of the Berkeley AI Research Group Alison Gopnik; former co-lead of the Ethical Artificial Intelligence Team at Google and co-founder of Black in AI Timnit Gebru; philosopher and cognitive scientist David Chalmers; author, host of the “Better Offline” podcast and writer of the “Where's Your Ed At” newsletter, Ed Zitron; The New York Times journalist and author, Michael Pollan, and more. The first episode is available now wherever you get your podcasts. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Sarah Longwell Knows the Cheat Code to Politics
Sarah Longwell listens to voters. As a GOP strategist and pollster who felt herself languishing in the wilderness as Trump 1.0 took root, she founded “The Bulwark” in 2019 with a stated mission “to put country over party... and to build a home for the politically homeless.” This masthead has become a movement, and Sarah, its fearless leader, sees defending democracy as the quintessential goal. After leading voter focus groups for the last eight years, Sarah understands that what matters in the beltway ‘bubble” rarely translates to what matters to America’s median voter, and why Trump’s approval is flailing: “People know that the tariffs are Trump’s, people know that the Iran war is Trump's... and that it is raising their prices, and that is what they are mad about.” Sarah uses these insights to chart a path for how Americans can move past the MAGA movement and take the “weird” out of government again. She joins Nicolle for a conversation about the power of simply listening to voters, how the two wings of the MAGA movement are fraying, and what Democrats can do to capitalize on Trump’s failures. And a note to listeners: Last chance to get tickets for a live taping of "The Best People" with iconic documentarian Ken Burns at the 92Y in New York City. It’s happening on Tuesday, May 12th. You can learn more here: https://stage.92ny.org/event/ken-burns-and-nicolle-wallace Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Gov. Mikie Sherrill Runs New Jersey Like a Busy Mom
Governor Mikie Sherill's best leadership lessons came from the Navy—and her kids. As a mom of four, the retired Navy helicopter pilot and former Congresswoman doesn’t have time to waste, and with less than 100 days under her belt as New Jersey's governor, she’s showing Democrats a refreshing governing approach: move quickly and fix things. She believes in the American ideal of kids doing a bit better than their parents but is not looking to replicate the pre-Trump era that held “a great deal of inertia.” Instead, she wants to chart a new path for effective government that’s fast and reliable. She joins Nicolle for a conversation on the quiet benefits of being underestimated, how states are looking to expand their powers, and why Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth “is a debacle.” Governor Sherrill also advises on what battles to choose with Trump: “I'm looking at fights that are systemic and problematic... I'm not looking at problems of a patio off the White House that a good bulldozer can deal with in a week.” And a note to listeners: Tickets are now available for a live taping of "The Best People" with iconic documentarian Ken Burns at the 92Y in New York City. It’s happening on Tuesday, May 12th. You can learn more here: https://stage.92ny.org/event/ken-burns-and-nicolle-wallace Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Sherrilyn Ifill on Rebuilding Post-Trump: " It's Gotta Come Down to the Studs”
Sherrilyn Ifill maintains that we need a cultural reset from the ground up. The renowned former head of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and Howard University law professor has been in the trenches of defending civil rights for decades. Sherrilyn urges every American to confront the truth about what lives in our nation’s DNA, because she understands that threats to democracy go beyond Donald Trump’s embrace of the "raw animal core of this country"—they are everywhere in our culture. She joins Nicolle for a conversation about the uneven “neutrality” in media, America’s obsession with wealth, and how the Supreme Court, in ruling against the public interest and for maximum executive power, has become its own “Frankenstein monster.” Sherrilyn also reflects on the project before us in Trump’s aftermath: “part of what we have to do is to reexamine our definition of what it means to be a responsible citizen in this country.” And a note to listeners: Tickets are now available for a live taping of "The Best People" with iconic documentarian Ken Burns at the 92Y in New York City. It’s happening on Tuesday, May 12th. You can learn more here: https://stage.92ny.org/event/ken-burns-and-nicolle-wallace Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Kara Swisher on Death and Doritos
Kara Swisher is always one of the smartest people in the room. A long-revered voice in tech and media, her trademark, B.S. free ability to pinpoint coming trends and predict fading technologies has earned her trailblazer status for her podcasts, “On with Kara Swisher” and “Pivot” with co-host Scott Galloway. In her upcoming TV series, “Kara Swisher Wants to Live Forever,” she applies that perceptive curiosity to the world of wellness, tech and longevity. She joined Nicolle on one of the very first episodes of “The Best People,” and she’s back this week to dish on where Elon Musk has been since blowing up DOGE, why we're in the end stages of Trumpism (“JD Vance has all the charm of a cyber truck,”) and how to live your best life. If not forever, then at least for right now. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Best of the Best: Yes, Robert De Niro is Talking to You
Last weekend the legendary actor spoke at a protest in New York City. “The concept of No Kings is a great rallying cry, and hugely successful, as millions of us have answered the call. I support this movement 150%” he said. “Afraid of Trump?! Please. No, they should be more afraid of us.” In the conversation he recorded with Nicolle in February he expounded on the principles in that brief speech, and so this week we’re re-running the episode as a Best of The Best People. Robert De Niro commands every room he enters. His decades-long career and Academy Award winning performances have gifted the world some of its most beloved films, from instant classics like "The Godfather II" and "Raging Bull" to countless gems like "Goodfellas," and "Casino." But despite the rough and tumble characters he often portrays, he tells Nicolle, “I’m not a tough guy. I’m a concerned citizen.” He brings that inextricably human sensibility to this episode, having been a consistent and passionate voice in the fight against President Trump’s worst instincts. De Niro and Nicolle drill down on the optics of business leaders turning a blind eye to the administration’s behaviors, the need for mass mobilization to protect midterm election integrity, and the importance of kindness in an era defined by division. And the Hollywood titan has some sage advice for those who oppose Trump: “Everybody has to get out there every way possible... This is it. This is our country.” Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Alex Wagner: Trump’s MAGA Base is "Mad at Daddy"
Alex Wagner is journalist to her core, forever on the hunt for the next story “bubbling up on the ground.” From her 2020 reporting for Showtime’s “The Circus” on right-wing militias intent on reacting to a Joe Biden win, to her post-election MS NOW podcast “Trumpland” which found her standing outside a DC jail on a cold January night waiting for pardoned J6’ers to emerge, she believes in talking to people where they are to understand how they feel. Alex now helms Crooked Media’s “Runaway Country” podcast, and she joins Nicolle this week for a conversation about why some of MAGA's most ardent supporters are “mad at Daddy” and how sanitizing Trump’s crude commentary may have failed as a reporting method. And Alex doesn’t hold back on the White House’s disturbing video-gamification of the Iran War: “The idea that we celebrate and lust for death and bloodshed is some dark business. And this administration keeps telling us over and over again that that's what we want.” Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Julie K. Brown Continues to Break Open the Epstein Story
When Miami Herald investigative reporter Julie K. Brown first started digging into the story behind Jeffrey Epstein’s sweetheart plea deal back in 2018, she did not envision the firestorm that would build around her reporting: breaking open decades of abuse of young girls and young women, and eventually leading to Epstein's arrest on charges of sex trafficking of minors. Brown initially tracked down close to 100 women who were allegedly victimized by Epstein and as they began to share their stories with each other and the world, they became a force that Congress could not ignore. The fierce advocacy of these and other survivors led to passage of the 2025 Epstein Files Transparency Act. Which brings us to our current moment: the Justice Department has now published nearly 3.5 million pages, so citizens can see for themselves the extensive web of Epstein's connections to the prominent and the powerful. Julie joins Nicolle in this episode to reflect on her incredible legacy of investigative reporting, what threads she continues to pull, and the importance of believing these women: “It's real, people. It's real that this happened." A note to listeners: This episode contains discussions around sexual assault. Please listen with care. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling Knows Leadership… And When It’s Lacking
“ We anticipate your unit taking about fifty percent casualties.” This is what Retired Army Lieutenant General Mark Hertling heard in an intelligence briefing at division headquarters before deploying to Iraq in 1991. This would be the first of three combat deployments in a 38-year career in the United States Army, retiring after leading over 40,000 men and women as Commanding General of the U.S. Army Europe. It was this deployment that led Lt. Gen. Hertling to begin keeping a war-time journal, which became the basis for his latest book. ”If I Don’t Return" is a collection of raw and revealing missives written for his sons in the event he didn’t make it home. Drawing from his personal experiences and military expertise, Lt. Gen. Hertling joins Nicolle to explain what drives the less than one percent of our citizens to become service members. He also lays out his vision of leadership and notes that while active-duty generals serve at the behest of the President that voters choose, the current leadership in the White House and at the Pentagon do not always seem to understand the mission. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
How Tig Notaro's "Laugh Hang" Got Her to the Oscars
Tig Notaro is spectacularly funny. She’s also a fiercely dedicated friend. The Emmy and Grammy nominated comedian now adds “Oscar Nominee" to her impressive list of accomplishments for her work producing the deeply personal documentary, “Come See Me in the Good Light.” The film explores the life and death of her dear friend, the late poet and activist Andrea Gibson, who passed after a hard-fought battle with ovarian cancer in July of 2025. Notaro joins Nicolle in this episode to honor Gibson and share stories of the venerated poet's profoundly impactful life and legacy, encapsulated in the film in Gibson's own words: “My story is one about happiness being easier to find once we realize we do not have forever to find it.” They also talk about the healing nature of comedy, Notaro’s experiences acting in "The Morning Show" and "Star Trek: Starfleet Academy," and her latest venture into podcasting hilarity, “Handsome.” Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
A Mayor, a Military Pro and a Professor on Affluence, Grievance and Greed
After Nicolle's fiery conversation with Princeton Professor Dr. Eddie Glaude, former NOLA Mayor Mitch Landrieu, and The Atlantic’s Tom Nichols on "Deadline: White House" a few weeks back, it was clear they needed to continue their thread beyond a single TV segment. So this week, she convened the trio to pick up where they left off: how to make sense of this moment in our history. “We're facing some serious headwinds, right? We're running deficits in courage,” alerts Glaude, while Nichols, looking at the rise of walled-off technocrats, laments, “Even the ancient Athenians built a Parthenon to put money back into the economy at some point.” And after a wide-ranging conversation about grift, grievance and the promise of America versus her reality, Landrieu declares: “Trump is a feral beast,” before noting that, in the wake of what the president is destroying, “People need to start thinking about, what are we going to build going forward?” Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Yes, Robert De Niro is Talking to You
Robert De Niro commands every room he enters. His decades-long career and Academy Award winning performances have gifted the world some of its most beloved films, from instant classics like "The Godfather II" and "Raging Bull" to countless gems like "Goodfellas," and "Casino." But despite the rough and tumble characters he often portrays, he tells Nicolle, “I’m not a tough guy. I’m a concerned citizen.” He brings that inextricably human sensibility to this episode, having been a consistent and passionate voice in the fight against President Trump’s worst instincts. De Niro and Nicolle drill down on the optics of business leaders turning a blind eye to the administration’s behaviors, the need for mass mobilization to protect midterm election integrity, and the importance of kindness in an era defined by division. And the Hollywood titan has some sage advice for those who oppose Trump: “Everybody has to get out there every way possible... this is it. This is our country.” Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Scott Galloway Wants You to Resist and Unsubscribe
Like many Americans, Scott Galloway was feeling powerless against the Trump administration's worst policy impulses. And then it hit him: knowing Trump responds only to changes in the market, why not use our keyboards and our spending power to push back through economic action? Designed as a "coordinated economic strike targeting tech and AI companies enabling state power,” ‘Resist and Unsubscribe’ is a movement aimed at harnessing the power of economic boycott to create repercussions for companies enabling the president. In this episode, Galloway joins Nicolle to break down how consumer spending – the driving force behind the United States economy – is a “potent weapon” for the millions of Americans eager to stand up for our nation's values. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Check Out a Preview for “Clock It”
“MS NOW Presents: Clock It” is an invitation to the liveliest and most informed groupchat in your feed. Symone Sanders Townsend and Eugene Daniels are long-time political powerhouses. And they understand more than most how culture influences politics, and the role politics plays in culture. On “Clock It,” they’re helping you put your finger on the pulse of the hottest political gossip and their off-air conversations too colorful for TV.In the first episode of their new show, “Clock It,” they’re joined by actors Tony Goldwyn and Myles Frost for a conversation about making thought-provoking art when political tensions are at their highest. And they dig in on the Super Bowl halftime show, why cuts to The Washington Post matter for democracy, and the race to the Senate in Texas.Stay here to get a sneak peek. Then search and follow the show to get new episodes every Thursday. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Rosie Perez is Still Doing the Right Thing
Rosie Perez was a self-professed “college nerd” studying biochemistry when she landed her breakout role as Tina in Spike Lee’s iconic 1989 film “Do the Right Thing.” Since then, audiences have fallen in love time and time again with the Oscar-nominated actress’ magnetic presence and character driven performances. Off screen, Perez shows the same genuine courage and heart in everything she advocates for, from AIDS awareness to voting rights. In this episode, she catches up with her longtime friend Nicolle for an honest conversation about the bravery of Minnesotans, the intensity of everything Trump has wrought and the impact she’s felt from canvassing to get out the vote. And though she may seem fearless, she admits to Nicolle “everyone thinks I look so brave...I’m terrified.” When asked why she continues her advocacy, Perez says “there's so many people that stood up for me and fought for me. That's what gives me the courage.” Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
MS NOW Presents: Clock It with Symone and Eugene
Symone Sanders Townsend and Eugene Daniels were once at odds as White House staffer and White House reporter. Now they’re friends and colleagues—each co-hosting their own shows at MS NOW. But their off-air conversations are where the real action is. Their new show, “MS NOW Presents: Clock It” is an invitation to their groupchat, the liveliest—and most informative—in news. Whether it’s ICE getting dispatched to the Super Bowl because Bad Bunny’s doing the halftime show, or Nicolás Maduro’s Nike Tech fit, or Michael B. Jordan’s sole Oscar nomination despite playing three roles in Sinners, there is no collision between culture and politics that this show won’t document and decipher. Symone and Eugene see exactly what’s going on—and they want you to clock it, too. New episodes drop every Thursday, starting February 12th. Search for “MS NOW Presents: Clock It” and hit “follow” so you don’t miss an episode. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Eric Holder: Institutions Have Failed Us, the American People Have Not
Eric Holder exemplifies a Justice Department guided by principle and integrity— rather than by the whims of a White House occupant. Holder’s unique perspective as the nation’s former chief law enforcement officer allows him to diagnose an untethered executive branch intent on weaponizing institutions, while also owning where Democrats fall short: “Democrats have been uncomfortable with the acquisition and use of power.” In this episode of “The Best People”, Holder joins Nicolle for an earnest conversation about ordinary citizens engaging in extraordinary acts of protest in Minneapolis and the colossal stakes of the upcoming midterm elections. And while he notes, "our institutions have failed us,” he underscores that “the American people have not.” Plus: a warning to those who bend to Trumps demands: “memories are long and people are going to remember where you stood” in this moment. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Amb. Susan Rice on Trump’s “Grand Theft Larceny"
Susan Rice’s exemplary career in government and international relations has earned her a distinctive reputation as a resolute advocate for American interests on the world stage. As the former Ambassador to the United Nations and President Obama’s National Security Advisor, she is keenly aware of our nation’s leadership role across the globe. So, her sober analysis of President Trump’s brazen and “widening authoritarian power grab" should be taken with the gravity she affords it. Ambassador Rice joins Nicolle to emphasize how far Trump has fallen from his campaign promises of isolationism and affordability, while underscoring that “most Americans did not sign up for reckless foreign adventures for an imperial United States.” And she lays plain that, whether bullying Greenland abroad or brutal ICE interactions here at home, Trump’s “gestapo-like tactics” are not who we are. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Oliver Darcy on the Effects of a Steady Fox News Diet
In a media market saturated with content, Oliver Darcy breaks the fourth wall—turning the lens back on the content makers shaping today’s news. The veteran media reporter and “Status” newsletter founder is known for delivering must-read scoops and industry analysis. In this episode, Darcy joins Nicolle to analyze the depths of corporate capitulation to Donald Trump, how MAGA media stars are commanding the attention economy through rampant conspiracy pedaling, and why America's information environment is increasingly unhealthy. He warns that “the antibodies that were fighting the sickness” are being depleted. But Darcy also sees glimmers of optimism: from citizen protests to independent journalists, Americans are waking up. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Heather Cox Richardson: "This is Americans vs. Dictators"
Against the backdrop of the shocking U.S. capture of President Nicolas Maduro in Venezuela, renowned historian and Substack superstar Heather Cox Richardson is back with Nicolle, bringing her unique capacity to explain our current state of play through a historically tinted lens. As Trump’s actions abroad rattle the post-World War II international order, Heather warns of a political era that adheres more to the strongman politics of autocratic leaders like Vladimir Putin than it ever has before. Together, Cox Richardson and Nicolle trace an evolving list of national concerns: a president in clear decline, a Congress unwilling to act, and a Republican Party abandoning its core principles in real time.And if you haven't heard Nicolle’s first conversation with Heather, please give it a listen here: Heather Cox Richardson:“People are Starved for Facts”Note: This episode was recorded on January 7, 2026. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Get Insider Access to MS NOW Podcasts
Listen to this special invitation from Rachel Maddow and sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to take advantage of a 3-month free trial!With MS NOW Premium, you can get our entire suite of podcasts – everything from “The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell” to “Main Justice” – all ad-free. As a subscriber, you also get exclusive bonus content from shows such as “Rachel Maddow Presents: Burn Order.” And you can get early access to “The Best People with Nicolle Wallace,” including a new episode dropping this afternoon. There’s a lot in store for 2026. So to celebrate the new year, we’re giving away 3 months free if you sign up by the end of January! It’s just $2.99/month or $29.99/year after that. Thanks for listening! Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Best of The Best: Joan Baez is Calculating How Much She’s Willing to Risk
Happy New Year! This week, we’re revisiting an episode we recorded back in September with the iconic folk singer, songwriter, and activist, Joan Baez. Please enjoy! We’ll be back with new episodes next week.Legendary singer and activist Joan Baez still marches in protests; but she also performs in a circus, dances with drag queens and does whatever else she can to maintain a sense of joy and laughter. Baez has spent her career equally at home on the political frontlines as behind a guitar. But as the world has changed, so has how she calculates risk. She thinks if she were to be arrested now – as opposed to 58 years ago – it would be “scary in a way that I was not scared back then.” But, she tells Nicolle, “social change cannot happen until somebody's willing to take a risk." Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.