Jack White Interview, CEO of Get Even Entertainment

Stan Renard

Interview with Jack White, CEO of Get Even Entertainment. Stan Renard ( 00:00 ): This is Stan Renard. And I just had the privilege to do an interview with Jack White CEO of get even entertainment, a management company, uh, out of, uh, Austin, Texas. And, uh, here is, uh, Jack, uh, telling us his story. Jack White ( 00:19 ): You know, I run a man and a guy, him and I, but I've always wanted to get more people into it. And like I have like a few people that work with me and, and I just like inspiring to work in the manner of business because it's a really fun thing to do. But I think it's something like a constantly goes over look. Um, you know, because there are kind of people that just want to, you know, be booking agents it, but I don't, I just truly think that there's a lot of people that don't really understand how the industry works. Um, and, and the various aspects of it, um, in their opinions that I have that are different than others. Like I don't think you should ever. So like I, my background was like, I actually, uh, so went to UT Austin and then I went to client email. Jack White ( 01:15 ): And, um, for a graduate degree. And then I worked at [inaudible], I worked at an agency, but it was a television and I don't think you should be a manager and an agent at the same time. Um, and there are a lot of people that do that and I think that's like profiteering. She would agree. And so I think my main message, I would, sorry, I'm talking too much bro. Once you get to it after that, um, I'm, I'm very much ethical and uh, what I do and how I conduct business, cause there are a lot of people out there through a church, you know, young clients that, you know, have no money of what see in Promus in the world, but then say, Hey, there are no promises and then don't deliver anything. And I'm just very much against that and I just want other people to have that view on it. Um, and yeah, that's, that's really my thing. So I mean it goes deeper, but uh, uh, Oh, you jump in here. Sorry about that. Stan Renard ( 02:25 ): Oh, don't worry. This is great. That's a great intro. You know, I was going to, you know, get it all started by asking you about your background, but you're already kind of, um, you know, gave us a bunch of that information. How did you, um, decide to start to get even entertainment? Jack White ( 02:44 ): Um, so I, uh, from the beginning I started touring when, uh, so I'm about 30 years old. Um, and I apologize for my voice right now. Um, I just, uh, I, I have like terrible fire infection. Um, but so I started, uh, when I was 14 years old, I started touring. Um, I don't know why I'm at home. My parents let me do that. Um, but they did. Um, and then, uh, and then, you know, around like 18 or 19, I realized that I didn't want to do that. You know, I didn't want to be on the road all the time. I'd prefer just to, you know, manage man. Then I kind of started doing that, but I managed that. That was that. Uh, cause I was doing like nine months out of a year or something like that. Um, and then I realized, you know, when you're not hassled, you magic map, uh, no one, you know, they should seriously. Jack White ( 03:45 ): Um, so at that point I just, uh, I decided to go to college, um, and I went to graduate school. Um, and then my buddy called me one day after I quit my job working in television, um, and said, Hey dude, I like, I, uh, I met this, uh, I met this guy, this Uber driver, and his son Dennis. Really awesome bat. Um, I was like, all right, cool. He's like, and I think I'm just trying to the timeline and he's like, I'm pretty sure I, uh, I told him I'd manage them, but I don't know how to do that. It's because he's, he was working at flood, the business manager company in Nashville, music. Like he managed money there, like Kanye West and shit. Um, and sorry if I curse. Um, and, but he's like, I know, you know, actually know how to manage music, so can you do this with me? Jack White ( 04:45 ): Um, yeah, I was like, you know, I mean, I just love my job so I got nothing to lose, so why not? Um, there was surgery that, um, and it was, I like, you know, it was, it was really fun and I retrained, gained my interest in music a lot. Um, and you know, I got to travel more and go see a lot of shows. And then, so I had that one band for about, I mean, I don't have any more, but we're totally like, we're on very good terms. Their management, Dolly Parton's manager now and like, my God, like I'm not the ad. I do hate that guy now. Um, and so I had them for my August, 2018 two, you said timber 2019, but in June I picked up one band in July, picked up another that in between September and now, um, I picked up 17. Wow. Jack White ( 05:43 ): And I just like, I don't know, it's honestly kind of a miracle. It's, it's pretty crazy because I signed one band in 24 hours of just talking to them. And then 48 hours after that I had to record offers on the table. I'm like, I just, it's just efficient. You know, I just decided to start it because, um, I think it's fun. I named it what it is, uh, because I was really angry when I was leaving Hollywood. Um, and you know, the television business, cause you know, people there like really, uh, overly aggressive and mean and uh, I know that sounds like a cliche, but it's really true. Um, and I was like, you know what, just like fuck this. Like I'm going to do an thing, I'm going to work on my own terms. Um, and I think more people should do that. Um, and so that's really why I started, I call it a good event cause it's just like there's this one song that I know, uh, by this artist named Mickey Avalon. I'm not sure if you're familiar, but it's called a, I get even and the choruses, I don't get mad. I get even, um, in, uh, in like at the time really struck a chord with me. It's like, yeah, I'm not going to get mad. I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna meet better than everyone. Jack White ( 07:18 ): Yeah. I just, um, I don't really, you know, believe in anger to a degree. I mean, I get frustrated, but it's just, you know, you do it for the love of the music and actually you have to do right in that. And that's one thing that like, you know, all my, you know, I don't work with a single client, um, that I don't fully enjoy the music. I made that mistake before and it doesn't work out well because if you don't fully believe in it and you're not going to do, uh, your best work. Um, and so I just, you know, unless I don't entirely love your music, I'm not going to work with you. It's not like it's an insult to the music. It's just like, I'm not going to give you what you need. It's, it's just honesty. It's transparency and, and that's something I'm, you know, it's, it's, it's a very important thing to me. Jack White ( 08:20 ): It's very important to my clients. Um, I talked to, uh, most of them every week, if not most of them, every single day of the week. Um, and then just, you know, right now with this virus and whatnot, streaming numbers are going down. Um, and so I'm, you know, I'm just, you know, no one's asking me to do this stuff. It's like, but I'm going out there and sitting in articles saying like, this is where streaming is going down. She goes, no one's commuting. So it was like, don't worry about it. It's gonna pick back up because I'm a strong believer in like, you know, some managers kind of just like sit back and relax and wait for stuff to come into manage where I go out there and I, I find things right. Um, right. I have, I had a band, uh, they didn't ask for it, but I just went out and I hit up Ernie ball, you know, the string company, uh, did and company and ask them for an endorsement. Jack White ( 09:24 ): Um, and they gave us, uh, I only just got on price. Uh, and then I did the same thing with GHS. Uh, and they gave me a 75% discount for a few a few bands. Um, and it's just, you know, it's, it's all about just being an entrepreneur in the business because it's, it's rapidly changing and so you have to rapidly adapt and they really know, you know, there's no way to print it on paper and write it down as like, like, you know, like a manual on how to manage. You just kind of, you just do it. Um, and, but there is sort of kind of a manual on how to just do that, if that makes any sense. Right. It's like a, it's like a manual on figuring out how to just keep people happy and just be creative. Cause you know, I told you, I said I was in the touring band. Uh, you know, that was very creative for me. I feel like I'm a creative person. Um, and this is just a different way for me to be creative. It's just going out there and they're like, Oh, well they didn't have for this, but this would be kinda cool. Like what if we partnered them with this? Uh, I had one band that had like the room custom, uh, brand of ground coffee. Wow, Stan Renard ( 10:57 ): that's unusual. It's unusual. Jack White ( 11:02 ): Yeah. It's just, it's just random stuff and you just have to, like, I didn't find various streams of revenue because of the kids, not just touring anymore. It's clearly not CD sales. Um, it's mainly streaming and video, but if you can't get that, you have to find people wait for, to get people to pay attention to that and doing, I was just finding like these just random avenues of caching, feeling the tension and they're unconventional sometimes. Um, it's like I said, there's just really no formula. Right. Stan Renard ( 11:48 ): I have two questions for you, Jack. Uh, one is, um, what range of services do you offer you artists? And I know you already kind of talked a little bit about this and then you mentioned earlier on, um, you know, you not believing necessarily in an, uh, you know, asking to, uh, your, um, your clients to, to pay a flat rate, uh, with promises that you know and cannot necessarily be always delivered. Uh, what is your business model? Jack White ( 12:19 ): Uh, this model was really like, they'd still, like, I don't charge a flat rate where I would, I, I, I guess with men needs this and this to do, but I, I'm very much against charging flat rates. I think that's the wrong thing to do. I don't think it's ethical. Um, my business model is pretty much I approach artists, uh, right now. Um, most of them, I mean, so, so it's kind of like a variable model. So I have, uh, about 20 clients right now. Um, and I have two assistants in one public, so Sydney, one co-manager. Um, and so my means, my mom was really, I approached him in the little room on board and this is honestly kind of scary to some people, but it shouldn't be. I charge a 10% as opposed to the 15% that most people charge. And I do this because, um, one, it helps my business grow at a more rapid rate. Jack White ( 13:27 ): Uh, on a second level, these artists don't make money, you know, they, they do, but they're starting out. They're all scalloping. So who am I to go out and take a 20% out of the $500? They make it a show. Right. I don't think that's right. Um, and then, you know, I also tell them that, you know, if you could share with me your home town, you make four grand. Um, you know, if I can book that, if I wasn't a part of that, I'm not going to touch any of it. Cause that's unfair. Like, cause you would've done that anyway without me, you know, unless I like really developed it to a certain degree. Uh, I told him I don't take March because they don't right now for most of them. Um, just because again, they're, they're all developing, but I do tell them every time I work within the playbook, I know you're developing and this is very much a trust thing. Jack White ( 14:33 ): And, and I trust all of them, uh, to very high degree cause they'll Sydney statements and whatnot. Uh, and I'll be like, look, you know, if you make, if you're making $100 a show on tour, I'm not going to reach out and ask for 10% of that $100, because that's your bread and butter. That's what's going to feed your deck. Right? You know, buy your dinner. That's what's going to keep you to the next city. Um, and whatnot. Um, but you know, once you get one shirt, uh, we're going to have a different discussion and they all know that and they may agree with it. And, and that's the reason why I get along with all of them so well is because I'm just super, I like coming from a former touring, uh, musician. I understand the struggle and I think that's the disconnect with a lot of other managers is that they haven't been through that experience, um, until they don't really understand so much as I, you know, it's like, you know, if are you taking timbers and $100 was a $10 for you in, you know, the spend struggling people needed night and get from one city to another because if they don't have that money, that's not good for the, the manager either because then the man here isn't going to have a viable touring band because they can't do anymore. Jack White ( 16:04 ): Um, so my bin slaw was just really, um, I just help everyone hours looking at like hand and I, and we're all under a basic, uh, Oh my mother someday. Jack White ( 16:19 ): Oh yeah. I just said, yeah, I'm Sarah. Um, so that's just the basic agreement and um, sort of just got off track all of that. Um, I should, uh, I need, my mama was really just like a, like a more personal touch, like a caring touch. Um, anytime that I have the opportunity to go out and see one of my clients, I will try out to see them. I will fly out to see them. Um, I'll do anything just to, you know, show them like, Hey Brooke and not just this guy behind the soap strain that doesn't exist and all I just sunny mouth, I will show up, you know, see my face and I'll shake your hand and we'll talk to each other and let me know what your concerns are with everything else. It's like if they want help with merchandising and better pricing, well somewhat with that. Jack White ( 17:19 ): Um, you know, if they have like personal problems, you know, problems or something. Uh, this is only happened a handful of times but I'll, I'll be there for them. Uh, it's a 24, seven job and, and fully committed to that. I just want to provide them the best opportunities possible because the more I do because grin, like I know there are larger managers out than me until I have to differentiate myself. Cause if there's a huge manager out there, this church in the same region, same rate as a smaller manager, and they go with one thing I'm really going to go with, they're going to go with the bigger guy. But if there's the larger manager that wants them in a smaller manager, that's just like what culture you us. Uh, we don't want to have saga details right now, but I'm gonna work for you. I'm going to fully commit to you. Um, uh, that's, that's just what I'm going to break down. Right. I guess it goes was really, uh, yeah, but I'll do anything in terms of services, but that will book hotel rooms and everything was like, you know, I was trans, the Hollywood, us, the sat. Um, I usually don't book shows, uh, just cause I don't like to because of, it's not really part of it. Um, and I can find an agency to live, but you know, it is Stan Renard ( 18:53 ): okay. Um, I, uh, so talk, well, you know, uh, talking about the, you know, depend Dimmick and, um, you know, how this is disrupting everything we're doing right now. Uh, how has this changed your priorities? Jack White ( 19:09 ): Uh, discovering new streams of revenue is what E, you know, it's old, really developed a lot or really impacted the industry, uh, a lot within the past week alone. So everyone's kind of trying to figure out a way to adjust it or adjust to it. Um, streaming has gone down about 15%, but YouTube streaming for some people has gone up 30 to 50%. So you will get it in. It's, you know, and the reason is no one's commuting in. That's when the majority of people listen to music. Cause when they're in their cars on their way to and from work, we a few now I'm working, you're not listening to music and when you're at home you're watching videos or computer and your TV on your iPad, on your phone and whatnot. So that's like videos gone up and streaming has gone down. So given that everyone's trying to figure out a way to monetize that, uh, I'm trying to figure it out myself right now. Jack White ( 20:19 ): A number of people aren't as well. Um, I'm being really, really proactive about it. I'm talking to all my different record labels. Um, and it's, it's a very confusing hot black. One thing that I think is a universal truth with or without the pandemic is video content is crucial in bringing in listeners and viewers because if you just post a single song, I say Facebook, uh, they're way less likely to listen to that. Then if you post even just a lyric fitting now or you know, a music video, there's, cause that draws you into my more, it's more, I don't want to say more interactive [inaudible] term, but if it's more immersive I guess. Right. And everyone gets to like really feel it way more. Um, and that's one thing that I really push everyone at work with you do with like look, if he can't afford a music video, um, and what I have, everything I do is like, I, I know what kind of music video directors, they gave me good rates and so I always hooked them up, but they can't afford a music video. Like at least you lyrics video. Cause you can do one for like Andre 150 bucks. And that's better than nothing because you can just press play on Facebook or Instagram versus having to click a link to open Spotify and then listen to a song. Um, it's just, it's just completely different. Right. I agree. I agree. Yeah. Yeah. Stan Renard ( 22:07 ): Now I have a, you know, uh, as a segue to this, um, you know, I see Toms of stuff now way more content. Uh, every musician out of various putting stuff on social media, uh, Iver, you know, in their living room or whatever. Uh, and it's really overwhelming. There's so much of it. How do you break through the clutter, Jack White ( 22:30 ): uh, by Kippur and jading yourself in a lot of that is, uh, you know, just having good representatives if you have him at all, uh, and having video content. Um, most of the people that I work with, um, you know, just off the cuff, I have this metal core band. Um, the covered aid, you know, we do a leap as, yes. Uh, so she has a song called I don't give a fuck. Um, and the pop song, I, a metal core band that have covered it and it has happened, million streams on Spotify, like over half a million actually. Uh, and then I have another band. Uh, these are just example, I haven't been called cliff diaper. And they Sue a singer, uh, suffers from bipolar or disorder. And so a really strong message that they put into all of their music is just mental health awareness. And at the end of OB women, their videos, there's like hotlines for, you know, suicide awareness and you know, just how important. Jack White ( 23:50 ): And the video itself is just like they're, they're all in like therapy or something. It's like really funny video. Um, but at the same time it's like you can, uh, you can hear on the lyrics. It's about mental health. So it's just about like having like something unique to bring to the table. And I'm not saying everyone has to be, you know, have to have like a strong positive message, but you have to have something to do. Um, you know what good, I'm not saying like having a medical bed covering the pop song is new, but if you do well and it's good, I mean, someone's going to listen to it. It's just having that light. It's actor. Um, I have a band called go for goals that I signed. I signed them. It took me four months to sign that. Once I did, I had a record deal for 24 hours. Um, actually then you got the deal before I even signed them. Um, and then they, they released a song called let me go and in a month and a half it has over 50,000 streams of slam fire. Um, and then like in the video on Facebook has 14,000 strip suits. It's, every situation is unique and you just have to adapt to it. But you have to, as a, as a manager, you have to kind of reach out to figure out, you have to identify artists that are different, that are bringing something different to the table. And that's the most important thing. Right. Stan Renard ( 25:35 ): Thank you Jack. Uh, you have, I'm going to change a gears a little bit here, you know, now, um, you know, I, I teach at, uh, the university of Texas at San Antonio here in San Antonio, and, and you know, all the universities pretty much moved, uh, to, uh, you know, a remote, uh, instruction online teaching. Uh, and, and, and I, you know, I know that a lot of my students are struggling with this situation because they, they, you know, they, they, people who had accused to be face to face, do a lot of social interaction in person and, um, you know, as, as an entrepreneur, uh, as someone who is used to, uh, working from, uh, from home or from an office and, and working, you know, very much telecommuting, a lot of, I mean, imagining a lot of your time, what kind of advice would you give, uh, these folks who are, you know, now stuck at home and, and, and really like, it's, it's kind of, um, uh, you know, uh, a culture shock for them. Jack White ( 26:39 ): Uh, would you just mean like the, the lack of the interpersonal communication? Yeah. Um, just you have to find, kind of find your own inspiration. And I, you know, you have to eat the sounds lame, but you just have to keep yourself excited about everything. And that's what I do. It's, you know, you know, like I was saying earlier, it's like you don't wait for things to come to you. Uh, you have to bring things to yourself. Um, and I guess it sort of applies to that, but it, it's, it's, it's hard to say. I mean, you just have to like keep yourself excited and keep yourself inspired. Like, uh, this, this weird, like I, the other week I was just on Facebook and just started like, like up for some reason I got like suggested friends or whatever. Uh, and you know, I just have like rainbow crossing out and then they sugar, uh, accepting them. Jack White ( 27:46 ): And then I went back to the people you may know and they started becoming like, these really famous people. How do they, what is going on her hand out? And they just started reaching out to them. And then I honestly, I just met, I've been working with this guy from Australia who's like, uh, 54 years old. Uh, he was telling me the other day about just first for our rape and pouring with, he's definitely, it was more than one Lamborghini. And what she do is she always calls me from the lamp out and you know, and he's, he wants to partner with me. It's all just about just reaching out white people. Uh, you know, don't give up. You know, even when things seem to be stagnating, um, you really can't stop. Um, whether that be school or you know, in business alone, it's, if, if it seems bad, that's all the more reason to get more popped about it and get back in and you just have to, you just have to keep going. And if you love doing it, uh, keep doing it. And if you don't want doing it, then stop. Cause that's the whole thing. Uh, no one wants to be represented by anyone that doesn't love doing that. Um, and it's not fair to them. And if you aren't honest with them about it, then you know, it's long term. It's gonna make you look bad. Stan Renard ( 29:19 ): That's really a help pro guys. He does. Thank you. Um, you know, I have a lot of students who are interested and I know carry on artist management. I, I think, uh, to some degree sometimes, um, uh, you know, they don't necessarily always know what he, um, what advice would you give those young folks who, you know, I thinking about going in your line of work, uh, how they should go about it. Uh, should they intern with someone like you first? Are, um, any, any thoughts on the, on the topic? Jack White ( 30:01 ): Um, so in terms of getting into the business, uh, my route I will say was a little unconventional, giving them salaries if it happened to see manners and working in television, I had moved a little bit different. Um, so I wasn't a manager that I know. And these are people that magic large bands, um, like really big brands. They're open, they're only huge management companies. Uh, so much these days, uh, in for music at least. Um, if they're kind of like one, two in shops to a degree, um, and it's, you really just have to, it's just as creative as making music, right. You have to go out and, you know, it, it, it, figure out how you want to do it. You can, there's no pathway. You know, when I was working in television LA, it was like, okay, well you have to be an assistant at an agency for X amount of time and, you know, give your credit and everything. Jack White ( 31:08 ): I was like, okay, I'll do that. But in music management, it's like find good music, this completely undiscovered, given sir working with it and see what happens. And then sometimes, and then I've done my work, you know, I've been doing it, I mean all together probably for about 10 years. But you know, you, you start client shooting me, uh, you start trying to hit home runs. Um, you know, you don't always get them, but sometimes they'll just get emails back from people that are, you know, Trousered here, like yellow saw. Like I, I manage the guitars from Jimmy, take me back from the house. Stan Renard ( 31:56 ): No. Jack White ( 31:59 ): Um, Danny makes, let me go here. Huge, like alternative rock, emo van from the, I mean it still exists today, but when they were really big, like 2006, 2010, um, I randomly reached out to the guitars, not even expecting to get a response. And I remember set up now and, and he comes to me like asking for advice. I sitting and I'm like, this is insane. Um, other than that, like, uh, I would say my best advice was having someone to look into getting into it is calling up, like looking on Facebook's a great resource to see who's representing these. Um, and emailing a representative and saying if they can just hop on a call with them, uh, asking if they could, you know, uh, intern with them, cause a lot of them like, you know, like a ton of this can be done remote weight. Jack White ( 32:57 ): Um, and then if not, just ask for general advice and, and how they started and what their story. Um, and that's probably the best way. I mean, there's no clear cut formula for it, but it's just being read of and taking chances. And you have to be bold and doing it because, I mean, that's the wool industry. It's being bold, um, and you have to be willing to do it, uh, otherwise, I mean, you're not going to get anything done, frankly. Uh, so just reach out, call people. You know, I, granted my name is Jack White's, so people are, uh, didn't return my calls a lot because they think, uh, picking the, the actual Jackway, um, I've heard, I've heard a lot of people get really sad for answer. Um, but you know, I don't have any hesitation in calling like one of the biggest agents at William Morris or at CA for a paradigm. I've been just seeing, Hey, my name's Jack White. I have the Spanish have listened to it and a lot of times they will and they'll get back to you more than you think. Right, right, Stan Renard ( 34:12 ): right. It's a small industry in a, in a, in a grander scheme. Jack White ( 34:17 ): It is. I mean, it's a big industry money-wise when it's a small industry, personally. Right, right. Yeah. Stan Renard ( 34:24 ): You know, listening to you, uh, you know, it's, it's, uh, it's, um, uh, making me think about something else. You know, a lot of times when I think about, um, you know, big record labels, uh, you and I see less and less artists development on there. And do you find that, um, you know, uh, it's, it's, it's coming down to the management side now and, um, you know, it falls down, you know, it is artists development, something that you do now for your artists. So now that record labels really don't develop them so much anymore. Jack White ( 34:58 ): Well, I mean, I'm, you know, I [inaudible] this isn't like a longterm plan, but like I pretty much only have to vote and so artists, but I don't want them to always be that way, but I always want to keep them. It's not like once they get developed, I'm going to, you know, sell them all for you to X. Right. But, you know, the easy ones, you know, it's easier to get developmental arrests, especially, you know, if you're somewhat of a developmental manager. Um, and so with major labels, it's, I don't know, labels themselves are becoming less and less necessary. Uh, I myself have a deal through records label, uh, through Sony. So it's like the record labels, like the intermediary. Um, uh, so I'm just, we should agreement. So it's like if he signed with me, I can have your music distributed by distributed by Sony. Jack White ( 36:01 ): Like it's like, no problem. I have to and signed a piece of paper, agree to the terms and that's fine. You also don't have to do it. Um, record labels, really. It's, they use the technique I, but all like, you know, you throw it against the wall and you see what sticks, um, civil sign, a lot of people. Um, and then whatever works for when that then and whatever doesn't Mark. They would invest. Every street was firsthand with a client recently, uh, any super talented and it sucks that he just got dropped. Like, you know, you move on, um, major labels. It's just honestly like, Oh, her pretty much made a level of how you think about it. Uh, even me, any labels. I mean, particularly in the industry, I work at war, the, the genres I work with, which is just like kind of alternative, you know, fearless, riper, just majority owners, right? Jack White ( 36:59 ): Like Sony or Warner and in rhymes, a majority of them buy more of either of those. Um, and I'm pretty sure hopeless as well and a few others. And then others are just owned by Concord music. So they're essentially Indian. Like they're, they're major labels masquerading as independent record player. Um, you know, because he's, see wherever they might have even the day, I mean, there was music and that's why they're doing the business, but they're really just, you know, we, if someone comes up and gives me a check for my dollar, it's not going to take it. I mean, obviously I'm going to take it, why not? But you know, independent labels in my mind, uh, seafood trips, but they're just different tiers really. So it's like, it'll be the same label in the grand scheme of things be, it's so Sony, it will be like, okay, now you're on beer list, Ronnie, the fearless label. Jack White ( 38:06 ): They'll help develop you. And then once you get to a certain point now on the same Sony level, like for example, paramour, they signed a few by rock fueled by ramen has always had to deal with [inaudible] practice. And once you learn around and surpass a certain point, maybe, uh, or no, once paranoia should pass certain point, they became as Atlanta guards, man was a side drive through records. Um, I'm not sure if you know or remember them, but uh, they had, they were the first for the side, uh, new fan war and uh, and the starting line and vans like that. But Dan and upstream deal with MCA when NCA was still a record label to essentially drive to reassign them. Uh, they have support from NCA monetary away. And if they reached a certain amount of sales, I forget exactly what the deal was, the ones that we should assert amount of fails, uh, they would essentially be pushed up to be an MCA artists. Speaker 3 ( 39:11 ): Hmm. Jack White ( 39:13 ): Um, now MCA doesn't exist anymore, but what I'm really getting at is like there, there really are no independent record labels in existence anymore. I mean there are, but the big ones that everyone like the quote unquote big independent record labels, uh, they're all their own major label. Speaker 3 ( 39:36 ): [inaudible] Jack White ( 39:39 ): so as far as artist development goes, yeah, I mean, it depends on how much they believe that, uh, if they come to you, the [inaudible], if you go to them and beg for a deal, they're one, they're going to give you a big bad deal. And two, they're not gonna give a shit know. Speaker 3 ( 39:58 ): [inaudible] right. Jack White ( 40:01 ): It's like, as for artists, I highly recommend because I've seen people do this for my clients, like, or artists, you know, the music creators never go to a label yourself, have your representative do it. Because if you do it yourself, you're going to instantly come off as desperate. But if you have someone else go to you, then it seems like, Oh, someone else already believes in these hateful and we're actually going to give it a shot. Versus who just being like, Oh, please miss my music. Speaker 3 ( 40:42 ): [inaudible] Stan Renard ( 40:44 ): uh, Jack, what are your thoughts on the free 60 deal? Jack White ( 40:49 ): Uh, no. Stan Renard ( 40:54 ): So how do you, so when you're, you know, you have some of your artists that, you know, you are approached by about some record labels. How do you negotiate with them? Jack White ( 41:06 ): I worked for three 60 deals Stan Renard ( 41:08 ): or against it. Jack White ( 41:11 ): Uh, I don't like regular levels taking out publishing. Um, I don't think that's cool. Uh, I don't think they should take a licensing and thinking, um, merchandising is something I think it should be discussed in the future or you know, a lot of labels now will just ask for like, you know, like two exclusive that they can sell online but the artist keeps the rest of like touring merchandise and whatnot. Um, but I think it's publishing licensing you'd thinking that are my biggest issues with three 60 deals cause that's really like where a lot of income was coming in now. It's actually like today's day and age. Like literally now with the pandemic, um, licensing and thinking is he news cause you really have to leave the house, you record music and then you, you know, you get painted for the DM, a TV show. So, I mean, shit like that's helpful that everyone involved. Um, and some labels role, I don't deal with major levels but time honestly, but it's, it's, you know, some while you get a license you can see included and uh, and publishing and whatnot, but some did cope, all the shame, guilt and you know, when a commotion goes Speaker 3 ( 42:41 ): [inaudible] Jack White ( 42:43 ): yeah, yeah. So it's like a couple of wishing deals. It's just like, it's not 50, 60%, 40, 75, 25, uh, any artist favor granted. Um, but it's, I think that should be more up to the artists, honestly. Right. Jack White ( 43:01 ): Um, and so, yeah, I'm not really fan of three 60 deals. I, everyone I work with is, um, you know, kind of grew up in a very DIY background. Um, and I've had, I have a few clients that have had some really bad experiences with labels. Um, and I'm honestly currently in the process of, uh, pulling one of them out of the deal. That's just become an absolute freaking nightmare. I doesn't even advance money. Uh, he expects them to pay for it and then takes royalties on it. Uh, which is just not right to me. So I'm, I don't want to say I'm anti burger label, but I think the deals are becoming more and more, less friendly because the ND market is becoming more and more competitive. Right. Stan Renard ( 43:54 ): Well that's super helpful, Jack. You know, I don't want to take too, too much of your time. You already spent about 45 minutes with me here. Um, but I'm, I'm so appreciative, um, behalf of myself and the students. Uh, thank you so much for sharing your insights. Jack White ( 44:10 ): Of course. So I just, so just let me know, um, when you want me to us speak and I'll make sure I'm available. Stan Renard ( 44:19 ): Wow, that's super. I really appreciate that. You know, probably in the fall or next spring and you know, when things go get back into normal, I'd love to, uh, you know, have you come down in person and, uh, and meet the students, so that will be amazing. Jack White ( 44:33 ): Yeah, that sounds great, man. I will come forward to it. Stan Renard ( 44:36 ): Fantastic. Thank you Jack. Take care. Bye. Bye.