Science and Spirituality for the Curious
Richard Randolph
This the official podcast of the Science and Spirituality Institute. The focus is on relationships between the sciences and different spiritualities and faith traditions. We rely primarily upon the dialogue methodology for exploring these relationships.
Episodes
Episode 2.9: Darwin’s Gift to Christianity and Other Faiths? A Conversation with Charissa Jaeger-Sanders
Send us Fan MailCan Darwin's theory of evolution deepen our understanding of God rather than simply challenge it?Evolution has often been portrayed as a threat to Christian faith. Its long history of struggle, predation, suffering, death, and extinction seems to intensify one of theology's most difficult questions: How can such a world be reconciled with belief in a God who is all-loving, all-powerful, and all-knowing?In this episode, Richard Randolph speaks with United Methodist deacon and theologian Charissa Jaeger-Sanders about the first chapter of her dissertation, which approaches that question from a strikingly different direction. Rather than treating Darwin only as a challenge to Christianity and other faiths, Charissa explores how evolutionary biology may also become a theological gift.Their conversation considers nature's deep ambiguity. Competition and suffering are undeniably part of the evolutionary story, but so are cooperation, mutualism, adaptability, care, interdependence, novelty, and wonder. This fuller vision of nature opens the way toward understanding creation not as a finished and static product, but as a dynamic, relational process of ongoing becoming.In This Conversation· Evolutionary suffering creates such a profound challenges for Christian traditional ideas of Divine omnipotence, omniscience, and love· Why nature cannot be characterized as simply hostile or harmonious· Evolution reveals novelty, emergence, increasing complexity, interdependence, and ongoing becoming· How Charissa incorporates the Wesleyan Quadrilateral of Scripture, tradition, experience, and reason in her theological analysis and reflection on Darwinian evolution · How Charissa integrates the Wesleyan Quadrilateral into her comparative constructive theology and thealogy· Theological reflection should attend to the experience and agency of the more-than-human world· Creation's freedom to participate in its own becoming makes possible both suffering and flourishingWhy This Conversation MattersPublic debates often force an unnecessary choice between accepting evolutionary science and affirming religious faith. Charissa's work refuses that false choice. She takes the suffering disclosed by evolutionary biology seriously, without treating suffering as the whole story of nature or retreating from the difficult theological questions it raises.The result is a constructive account of creation in which divine love works through empowerment rather than coercion. Evolution does not provide a simple solution to the problem of suffering, but it can enlarge our understanding of God's relationship with a creation that possesses genuine freedom, creativity, and the capacity to become something new. This perspective also creates space for fruitful conversation between Christianity and other religious traditions.A Central InsightDarwin's gift is a vision of creation as unfinished, interconnected, and alive with possibility. God empowers creation to participate in its own becoming, bringing the risk of suffering and decay, but also the emergence of diversity, complexity, relationship, flourishing, freedom and wonder.About the GuestCharissa Jaeger-Sanders brings evolutionary biology into conversation with Christian theology and Hindu Sakta thealogy. Her work uses comparative constructive theology and the Wesleyan Quadrilateral to explore the relationship between the Divine, materiality, creaturely agency, and suffering.About the PodcastThe Science and Spirituality for the Curious podcast seeks to provide resources and opportunities that help individuals and faith communities develop their own informed understanding of how science and spirituality relate to one another. The podcast pursues this mission through different formats. Some episodes feature conversations with specialists in science, spirituality, theology, history, and related fields. Others feature reflections by Richard Randolph, the podcast’s host, on various aspects of science and spirituality.Links · To make a donation supporting the development of faith-based resources on AI technology, click here: https://scienceandspirituality.org/support · For the free subscription to Richard Randolph’s Substack block, click here: https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com/ For Further Reading· Abram, David. “On Being Human in a More-Than-Human World.” Center for Humans & Nature, July 22, 2012. · Ayala, Francisco J. Darwin’s Gift to Science and Religion. Washington, DC: Joseph Henry Press, 2007.· Haught, John F. God After Darwin: A Theology of Evolution. 2nd ed. Boulder, CO: Westview Press, 2008. · Jaeger-Sanders, Charissa. “Weaving Webs of Wisdom: How Our Interconnectedness with the Divine, Creation, and One Another Matters.” Journal of Hindu-Christian Studies 38 (2026): Article 3. · Johnson, Elizabeth A. Ask the Beasts: Darwin and the God of Love. London: Bloomsbury, 2014. · Southgate, Christopher. The Groaning of Creation: God, Evolution, and the Problem of Evil. Louisville, KY: Westminster John Knox Press, 2008. This episode’s title is a play on the title of the Ayala book.Chat GPT assisted in the development of these Show Notes. To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com
Ep 2.8 Can Artificial Intelligence Be Virtuous? A Conversation with Braden Molhoek
Send us Fan MailRichard Randolph speaks with Braden Molhoek, Director of the Center for Theology and the Natural Sciences (CTNS), about artificial intelligence and other emerging technologies, virtues, and the changing landscape of the science and religion dialogue. Braden begins by describing the path that led him to CTNS, including his studies in science and religion and his doctoral work in ethics and social theory at the Graduate Theological Union. He then introduces his research into “virtuous AI” and the important distinction between acquired and infused virtue. Braden believes that humans may be able to design technologies to support virtuous behavior, although that does not necessarily mean the technologies themselves possess virtue. The conversation also considers a less desirable possibility: AI systems can be designed—or trained—to reinforce vice. Braden points particularly to the sycophantic tendencies of large language models, which may flatter users, affirm their assumptions, and encourage them to place unwarranted confidence in AI-generated responses. Such systems may even tempt users to substitute interactions with AI for the complexities of human relationships. Richard and Braden broaden the discussion by considering how other technologies can assist moral behavior. GLP-1 medications, for example, may help some people exercise temperance by reducing cravings and impulsive behavior. But, if the effect disappears when the medication is discontinued, has the person acquired the virtue of temperance, or has technology temporarily supported temperate behavior? Their conversation then moves toward the future of humanity. If humans are genetically modified to survive in low-gravity environments or live on another planet, would they remain the same species as Earth-bound humans? What ethical problems might arise if modified and unmodified humans coexist? Could unequal access to human enhancement create new forms of power and injustice? Braden also describes a recent CTNS project funded by the Dialogue on Science, Ethics, and Religion (DoSER), a program of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS). In that project, CTNS offered several graduate level courses, as well as a public forum, exploring the impact of artificial intelligence on global climate change. Braden and Richard also reflect on growth in the creative mutual interaction of science and religion. For instance, earlier work primarily concentrated on cosmology and evolution. While cosmology and evolution continue to be important, contemporary scholarship has expanded to address consciousness, genetics, artificial intelligence, environmental responsibility, and emerging technologies. As Director of CTNS, Braden hopes to engage these emerging questions while preserving the Center’s longstanding commitment to a wide range of natural science and theological concerns. In this episode Information on the Graduate Theological Union and the Center for Theology and the Natural Sciences Braden’s journey into the study of science, theology, and ethics The history and continuing mission of CTNS How the science and religion conversation is changing The difference between acquired and infused virtue Whether an AI system can genuinely possess moral virtue Sycophancy and flattery in large language models GLP-1 medications and technologically assisted temperance as examples of using emerging technologies to promote virtue Genetic modification, space settlement, and the future of the human species The ethical risks of unequal access to human enhancement Environmental responsibility in the Anthropocene About Braden Molhoek Braden Molhoek is Director of the Center for Theology and the Natural Sciences at the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley, California. His academic work brings Christian ethics and virtue theory into conversation with artificial intelligence and other emerging technologies, as well as engaging environmental concerns, and theological anthropology. He has also contributed significantly to the CTNS Virtuous AI research project. About the Center for Theology and the Natural Sciences (CTNS) The Center for Theology and the Natural Sciences is an international center dedicated to promoting the creative mutual interaction if science and religion through research, teaching, and public service. Located at the Graduate Theological Union, CTNS explores topics ranging from cosmology and evolution to artificial intelligence, genetics, consciousness, environmental ethics, and human flourishing. About the Graduate Theological Union (GTU) Formed in 1962, the Graduate Theological Union is a consortium of interconnected theological schools, research centers, and affiliates working in collaboration to offer the Masters of Art and Ph.D. graduate degrees. As a collaborative consortium, GTU’s Mission is to advance “ecumenical, interreligious, and interdisciplinary scholarship to educate scholars and equip leaders who foster flourishing pluralistic communities.” Resources Center for Theology and the Natural Sciences: https://www.ctns.org Graduate Theological Union: https://www.gtu.edu Ted Peters, ed., The Promise and Peril of AI and IA: New Technology Meets Religion, Theology, and Ethics, Adelaide, Australia: ATF Press Publishing, 2025. (This volume contains many of the essays contributed to the “Virtuous AI” project of CTNS, funded by the John Templeton Foundation.) (Chat GPT assisted in the development of these Show Notes.) To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com
Ep 2.7: Can You Be a Christian Without Believing in Miracles?
Send us Fan MailDo Christians have to believe that the miracle stories in the Bible literally happened in order to be faithful followers of Jesus? In this thought-provoking episode, Richard Randolph explores one of the most challenging questions at the intersection of science and faith. Drawing on biblical scholarship, theology, and his own spiritual journey, Richard argues that Christians can remain deeply committed Christians, while understanding the miracle stories as profound expressions of spiritual truth rather than literal suspensions of the laws of nature. Along the way, he examines miracle traditions from several of the world's religions, considers the historical work of Elaine Pagels, reflects on the theology of physicist-priest John Polkinghorne, and explains why he believes the Resurrection belongs in a fundamentally different category than the other miracle stories found in Scripture. Whether you agree or disagree with Richard's conclusions, this episode invites listeners to think more deeply about what miracle stories were intended to communicate—and why they continue to matter today. In this episode you'll discover: That miracle stories appear in virtually every major religious tradition. Why Richard no longer interprets biblical miracles literally. Why he believes science and authentic Christian faith need not be in conflict. How trust in God shapes his understanding of Divine Action. Elaine Pagels' historical insights into miracle stories in the ancient world. Why the Resurrection is fundamentally different from other biblical miracle stories. Insights into miracle stories from John Polkinghorne and John Dominic Crossan How miracle stories may become even more spiritually powerful when we read metaphorically, rather than literally. A moving reflection from physicist and theologian Robert (Bob) Russell on praying for a healing miracle during his battle with prostate cancer. The Buddhist insight that the greatest miracle is the transformation of human consciousness—and how Christianity expresses a similar vision of transformed life. Books and Authors Mentioned Elaine Pagels, Miracles and Wonder: The Historical Mystery of Jesus (2025) John Polkinghorne, "The Credibility of the Miraculous" (Zygon) John Dominic Crossan (quoted in Miracles and Wonder) Additional Reflections from Richard Randolph on the Resurrection Podcast Episode 2.3: “Science and Resurrection” Substack Reflection on “Science and Resurrection,” available at https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com Connect with Science and Spirituality Website: https://www.scienceandspirituality.org Support the Podcast: https://www.scienceandspirituality.org/support Email Richard: [email protected] To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com
Ep 2.6: What Is Embodied Spirituality? A Conversation with Shelly Petz
Send us Fan MailIn this episode of Science and Spirituality for the Curious, I explore an important question: What happens when we integrate our spiritual lives with our physical lives, rather than treating them as separate dimensions of human existence?My guest is Rev. Dr. Shelly Petz, author of Meet You at Nine, which is available for purchase at Amazon.com. Shelly’s new book chronicles her journey into embodied spirituality. Through years of prayer, ministry, and personal reflection, Shelly has discovered a specific prayer practice that engages not only the mind and spirit, but also the body.Our conversation begins with Shelly's own spiritual journey. Although she originally expected to pursue a career in medicine like her father and grandfather, a profound experience while hiking led her in a different direction. Ultimately this new direction led into ordained ministry. Along the way, Shelly developed a deeper understanding of prayer—not as a way of informing God about our needs, but as an invitation to align ourselves with God's presence and purposes.A turning point in Shelly's spiritual life came when she sensed an invitation from God to meet each day at 9:00 a.m. What began as a daily commitment to prayer, gradually evolved into a practice she calls circle prayer. Inspired in part by Mark Batterson's book The Circle Maker and the ancient story of Honi the Circle Maker, Shelly began walking and driving in intentional circles while praying for her family, congregation, community, and others.As Shelly explains in our conversation, this practice transformed the way she sees the world. Circle prayer helped her slow down, become more attentive to the people and places around her, and recognize opportunities for human connection that might otherwise have gone unnoticed.One of the most intriguing aspects of our discussion is Shelly's conviction that God is always ready to meet us. The barriers that prevent us from experiencing God's presence are not God's barriers, but our own. Through her practice of circle prayer, Shelly has learned to become more attentive to that ever-present invitation from God.During our conversation, Shelly also shared practical examples of how circle prayer can deepen one's spiritual life, and she demonstrated the practice of circle prayer for listeners of this episode.Whether you are curious about prayer, interested in spiritual practices, or simply looking for new ways to integrate the physical and spiritual dimensions of life, I think you'll find this conversation both thought-provoking and inspiring.To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com
Ep 2.5: Review of ‘The Story of Everything’ Film
Send us Fan MailThis episode features a panel discussion and review of the controversial new film, The Story of Everything. Philosopher of science Stephen Meyer is the screenwriter, and he draws heavily from his book, Return of the God Hypothesis. The film was directed by Eric Esau. It has had a limited release in U.S. theaters through Fathom Entertainment. Panelists explored these questions: Were there moments in the film that created a sense of wonder and awe for you? Does the film raise new questions for you? What were the film’s strengths and weaknesses? Would you recommend this film to your friends and acquaintances? Important Links: Science and Spirituality website: www.scienceandspirituality.org Richard Randolph’s Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com The Story of Everything trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwL3ZKlwEoc Stephen Meyer, Return of the God Hypothesis, HarperOne, 2021 To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com
Ep 2.4: What Indigenous Traditions Can Teach Other Spiritualities
Send us Fan MailRichard Randolph has a fascinating discussion with John Grim, a historian of religions focusing on Indigenous Traditions. During their conversation, John shares his experiences learning from indigenous peoples, including being adopted by Crow people from Montana and invited to participate in their Sun Dance ceremonials. He reflects on what people from other faiths and spiritualities can learn from Indigenous knowledge and wisdom.Links:To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/supportRichard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.comJohn Grim is Co-Director of the Yale Forum on Religion and Ecology, for more information go to https://fore.yale.edu/; the Yale Forum current “Living Earth Community” can be found here, https://livingearthcommunity.com/Suggestions for Further ReadingJohn Grim, The Shaman: Patterns of Religious Healing Among the Ojibway Indians, University of Oklahoma Press, 1988.John Grim, editor, Indigenous Traditions and Ecology: The Interbeing of Cosmology and Community, Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard Divinity School Center for the Study of World Religions, 2001.Robin Kimmerer, Braiding Sweetgrass, Minneapolis, MN: Milkweed, 2013.N Scott Momaday, House Made of DawnLouise Erdrich, Love MedicineLeslie Harmon Silko, CeremonyJames Welch, Winter in the BloodJanet Campbell Hale, The Jailing of Cecilia CaptureSusan Power, The Grass DancerEddie Chocolate, Cheyenne MadonnaGerald Vizenor, BearheartRebecca Roanhorse, Black SunJoy Harjo (poet), An American SunriseLinda Hogan (poet and novelist), A History of KindnessSimon Ortiz (poet), From Sand CreekJohn G. Neihardt, Black Elk SpeaksTo financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com
Ep 2.3: Can Science Explain the Resurrection? A Conversation with Robert Russell
Send us Fan MailIn this episode, Richard examines one of the most profound questions in the Christian faith: Can science explain—or prove—the Resurrection? Drawing on conversation with physicist-theologian Robert Russell, this episode explores whether scientific cosmology can inform—and deepen—our understanding of resurrection. ContentsThis episode begins by noting that there has always been doubt about the Resurrection, going all the way back to Jesus’ disciples. The disciple Thomas earned the nickname, “doubting Thomas,” because he initially doubted the Resurrection of Christ, while the Gospel of Matthew records that some disciples worshipped the risen Messiah, while “others doubted,” Later, in 1 Corinthians 15, the Apostle Paul asserts that the Resurrection is central to the Christian faith.Robert Russell believes that the Resurrection must be viewed within the context of God’s work as Creator. He suggests that God’s work as Creator takes on three different forms. The third form of God’s creative active occurs at the End-Times, when God renews and heals existing creation, rather than replacing it. This is the “New Creation” described in the Book of Revelation 21, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Jesus’ Resurrection on Easter morning is a promissory note, confirming the resurrection as part of God’s plan for the New Creation at the End-Times.The New Creation is both continuous and dis-continuous with reality as we currently experience it. On the one hand, the New Creation will be dis-continuous with present reality. For example, the Resurrection currently appears to be in direct conflict with the laws of nature. However, scientific cosmology allows for the possibility that the laws of nature as we know them are not set in stone. One possibility in scientific cosmology is that there is not one, single universe. Rather, there are multiple universes, creating a “multiverse.” These different universes could have radically different laws of nature. This suggests that the laws of nature could be transformed in the New Creation, so that Resurrection would no longer violate them. Instead, resurrection would be a consistent with those different laws of nature.On the other hand, in some ways, the New Creation would be continuous with reality as we know it. An example of continuity would be that our personal identity continues in the New Creation. Since Robert Russell situates the New Creation within the overarching creative framework of God, it has been part of God’s creative plan all along. That is to say, the New Creation is not an afterthought—nor a corrective for some mistake. It has been part of God’s intention from the beginning.To conclude, while science cannot “explain” the Resurrection, science does not rule out the possibility of resurrection, either. What science can do is suggest potential frameworks that may make resurrection more intelligible to persons of faith. To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com
Ep 2.2: Exploring Ecology and Religion, with John Grimm
Send us Fan MailJohn Grimm, and his spouse Mary Evelyn Tucker, are co-founders of the Yale Forum on Ecology and Religion. Previously they also organized a series of conferences at Harvard University, resulting in a multi-volume series on Religions and Ecology. Contents: The conversation begins with John describing the process he and Mary Evelyn used to create the multi-volume collection of essays examining the relationship between Ecology and various religions and spiritualities. John explains the process of retrieval🡪 re-evaluation 🡪 re-construction that various authors adopted in their examination of how sacred texts could contribute meaningfully to healing the environment. John provides background on the founding of the Yale Forum on Religion and Ecology. Then, he discusses the many resources available on the Yale Forum’s websites. John and Richard also discuss the emergence of “eco-anxiety” and “eco-grief.” John shares how Yale Divinity School has begun offering its students instruction on providing pastoral care for those suffering from eco-anxiety and eco-grief. For further exploration:The Yale Forum on Religion and Ecology has multiple websites:For the Forum homepage, click here: https://fore.yale.edu/ For a brief listing of various resources on the Forum, click here: https://fore.yale.edu/sites/default/files/files/Forum_flyer_2024.pdf For the video Journey of the Universe website: https://www.journeyoftheuniverse.org/ To watch the video, go here: Journey of the Universe | Videos & Movies on Vimeo. The password is whowouldyoube619. For the new Living Earth Community project, click here: https://livingearthcommunity.com/ For resources on eco-anxiety and eco-grief, go here: https://fore.yale.edu/Resources/Eco-anxiety-Resources To check out Science and Spirituality’s new Substack page, click here:https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com.To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com
Ep 2.1: Understanding the Powers of the Universe, with Brian Swimme
Send us Fan MailIn this episode, Richard interviews Dr. Brian Swimme, a mathematical cosmologist and evolutionary philosopher, best known for articulating a “universe story” in collaboration with the late cultural historian and theologian Thomas Berry. Their work integrates contemporary cosmology with spiritual reflection through a story that explores cosmic evolution—from the Big Bang to the emergence of galaxies, to life and human consciousness—while inviting deeper reflection on its meaning for human identity and planetary responsibility. Contents: Brian and Richard begin their conversation by discussing the relationship between science and spirituality. Brian goes on to describe what he means when he says that the universe sacrifices for the evolutionary development of the universe, especially for the flourishing of life. Brian and Richard discuss the notion of a “cosmic Christianity” and Brian provides examples of how God is revealed through the development and processes of the universe. One of Brian Swimme’s major contributions to how we think about the origin and unfolding of the universe is his description of the “Powers of the Universe”: Centration Allurement or Attraction Emergence Homeostasis Cataclysm Synergy Transmutation Transformation Interrelatedness Radiance Brian and Richard discussed Brian’s understanding of “resonance” and “reverberation.” They each shared examples of reverberating events in their own lives. For further exploration Check out Brian’s website at https://storyoftheuniverse.org Check out Richard’s new Substack blog at www.scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com. Also, look for his reflections on Brian Swimme’s contributions to science and spirituality, in a blog to be posted at the end of this week. To see the Emmy award-winning documentary, Journey of the Universe, written by Mary Evelyn Tucker and Brian Swimme—and narrated by Brian—go to https://storyoftheuniverse.org/videos Books: The Universe Story : From the Primordial Flaring Forth to the Ecozoic Era--A Celebration of the Unfolding of the Cosmos, Brian Swimme with Thomas Berry, HarperOne, 1994. Cosmogenesis, An Unveiling of the Expanding Universe, Brian Thomas Swimme, Counterpoint, 2022. (Brian’s intellectual and spiritual autobiography.) Hidden Heart of the Cosmos (Ecology and Justice Series), Brian Swimme, Orbis Books, 2019. To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com
Ep 1.19: What Sufism Can Teach the Rest of Us about Spirituality and the Divine
Send us Fan MailTo contribute to the SSI year-end challenge match campaign, click here: https://scienceandspirituality.org/giving-tuesday/ In this episode, Richard interviews Dr. Zeynep Kuleli, a historian of Science and Technology. They discuss Dr. Kuleli’s research into Sufi spirituality and its implications for the vibrant floriculture in early modern Istanbul. After their conversation, Richard concluded this episode by sharing that what he has learned from Sufi spiritual insights and commitments can help him deepen his own spirituality and become a better Christian disciple, especially in the face of environmental crisis. Contents: The interview began with Dr. Kuleli describing her early life in Istanbul and interests, which eventually led her to enter the Ph.D. program in the History of Science and Technology at the Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore. Since she has just completed her dissertation, Richard also asked her to describe her doctoral research. From there, the conversation moved to Sufism, with Dr. Kuleli providing an introductory description of this special form of spirituality within Islam. Richard first met Dr. Kuleli at a conference in February, hosted by the Kripke Center for the Study of Religion and Society at Creighton University in Omaha. He asked her to describe the paper she presented at the conference, entitled “Sufi Orders and Floriculture in Early Modern Istanbul.” Dr. Kuleli described the social, cultural, and spiritual significance of this floriculture, with its focus on a small selection of flowers, including tulips, carnations, and roses. She described how the Sufis came to see these flowers as manifesting the highest attributes of God. From the Sufi perspective, there is not a sharp demarcation between nature, human culture, and the Divine. In her Creighton paper, Dr. Kuleli concluded, “"...when compared to their European contemporaries...the Ottoman perception did not rigidly demarcate the realms of nature, culture, and the divine, presenting a more fluid conceptualization of these entities." She discussed this conclusion with Richard and its implications for how we understand God. Finally, Dr. Kuleli describe what she has learned from this research project: it has taught her that we need to overcome our division and polarization within societies by recognizing that we are One in our existence with the Divine, nature, and one another. When we attack others, we are actually attacking ourselves. Following the interview, Richard picked up on this notion that we are One with nature, God, and one another. He believes that the Western impulse to demarcate God from Creation lies at the base of our inability to develop an environmental ethic, which celebrates and preserves the environment. He believes that we would be far more successful at addressing our environmental challenges, if we followed Sufism and other spiritual traditions in emphasizing the Oneness of existence that nature, humans, and God share together. He cautioned that this does not necessitate taking a pantheistic perspective. For more information about Sufism, see this YouTube tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yc9k9nvIHOU To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com
Ep 1.18: What Scientists, Christians, and Other Spiritualities can learn from Buddhism
Send us Fan MailIn this episode, Richard Randolph has a far-ranging conversation on Buddhism, ecology, and Western science with Dr. Stephanie Kaza. Dr. Kaza is Professor Emerita at the University of Vermont, where she taught Environmental Studies for many years. She also has lay ordination as a Zen Buddhist. She has written extensively on religion and ecology, eco-feminism, consumer culture, and environmental justice—all from a Zen Buddhist perspective. These show notes conclude with publication information on books by Dr. Kaza for those interested in further reading. Stephanie Kaza earned a Ph.D. in Biology from the University of California-Santa Cruz. She also has two Masters degrees: a MA in Education from Stanford and a Masters of Divinity from the Unitarian Starr King School for the Ministry in Berkely. Contents: Richard Randolph began the episode by sharing his commitment to inter-religious dialogue. Although Randolph makes his spiritual home within Christianity, he believes that he can deepen his Christian faith and grow spiritually by learning from other religious traditions and spiritual perspectives. He believes a compelling illustration of the possibilities for this spiritual cross-fertilization was well exemplified by the Hindu Mahatma Gandhi and the Christian Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.The interview began with Dr. Kaza sharing her scientific and spiritual journey, which led to her life’s work in environmental studies and advocacy, principally from a Zen Buddhist perspective. Following her autobiographical introduction, Dr. Kaza elaborated on her claim in Green Buddhism that environmental work needs to be placed in the context of a “steady spiritual practice, knowing the work will go on beyond our own lifetimes.” Dr. Kaza explained how Buddhism sustained her work as a scientist and an environmentalist.Dr. Kaza next described her proposal for creating an “intimacy with nature.”Their discussion of “intimacy with nature” then segued into a description of the Buddhist metaphor of “Indra’s Net” as a powerful explanation for the interdependence of all life, which is also a critical concept in environmental studies. Noting that over consumption is a significant driving force to many environmental problems, Dr. Kaza explained Buddhism’s critique of contemporary consumerism, especially in advanced societies. Next, they discussed Buddhism’s critique of contemporary, Western science. Dr. Kaza noted that Buddhism sees many advantages in contemporary science, but also recognizes significant limitations in the way scientific research and teaching are currently practiced. Acknowledging it is easy to become depressed and hopeless by the scope of current environmental challenges, Stephanie Kaza concluded the interview by describing how Buddhism offers grounding for hope in the face of these overwhelming challenges. After the interview concluded, Richard shared some important ways in which Buddhism has strengthened and deepened his faith as a Christian, especially in the face of the environmental crises. For Further Reading, Three Books by Dr. Stephanine Kaza: Kaza, Stephanie (ed.). Hooked! Buddhist Writings on Greed, Desire, and the Urge to Consume. Boston, MA: Shambhala Publications, 2005. Kaza, Stephanie. Mindfully Green: A Personal and Spiritual Guide to Whole Earth Thinking. Boston, MA: Shambhala Publications, 2008. Kaza, Stephanie. Green Buddhism: Practice and Compassionate Action in Uncertain Times. Boston, MA: Shambhala Publications, 2019.To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com
Ep 1.17: Is There Scientific Evidence for the Existence of a Creator God?
Send us Fan MailIn this episode, Richard Randolph interviews Olivier Bonnassies, who along with Michel-Yves Bolloré, is co-author of the book, God, The Science, The Evidence, The Dawn of a Revolution. This book was originally published in France in 2021. Since its publication, the book has sold more than 400,000 copies. An English translation has just been published by Palomar Press. Contents Richard Randolph begins by providing an overview of the book and its central thesis. He welcomes Olivier Bonnassies to the podcast. Then, Bonnassies shares his intellectual and spiritual journey, culminating in co-writing the book. Bonnassies describes the central thesis of the book, which is that recent developments in various sciences make the supposition of a creator God a more logical and rational intellectual position than a materialism that denies the existence of anything beyond the physical world. Bonnassies responds to Randolph’s query about how writing the book has changed and shaped his own faith outlook. After the interview, Randolph provides a nuanced assessment of the book and makes a suggestion about who might find it a helpful read. Sources Used: Michel-Yves Bolloré and Olivier Bonnassies, God, The Science, The Evidence, The Dawn of a Revolution, Translated by Rebecca M. West and Christine Elizabeth Jones: Luxembourg, Palomar Editions, 2025. To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com
Ep 1.16: Using AI in Faith Communities and in Spiritual Practices
Send us Fan MailIn this episode, Richard explores how Artificial Intelligence technology might be appropriately used within faith communities, as well as how individual persons might use the technology to enhance their spiritual practices. Contents Defining Artificial Intelligence and understanding different levels of AI, from the current state of the technology to projections about what it may accomplish in the future. Potential uses of AI in the life and ministry of a church or other faith community. Also, Artificial Intelligence’s potential uses in individual spiritual practices. What AI is not. Examining the limitations and risks of AI in the life and ministry of faith communities. Risks of using AI in individual spiritual practices. Broadening the focus, five societal risks posed by AI. A Christian “theology” of technology, based upon the Six-Day Creation Story (Genesis 1) and the Tower of Babel Story (Genesis 11:3-9) Five Principles to guide the ethical use of AI, from Michael Paulus, Jr. A six-step strategy for introducing Artificial Intelligence into the life and ministry of a church or other faith community. Sources Used: Anderson, Bernhard W. “Human Dominion over Nature.” In Biblical Studies in Contemporary Thought: The Tenth Anniversary Commemorative Volume of the Trinity College Biblical Institute, 1966–1975, edited by Miriam Ward, 27–45. Burlington, VT: The Institute, 1975. Nash, James A. Loving Nature: Ecological Integrity and Christian Responsibility. Nashville, TN: Abingdon Press, 1991. ISBN 978-0-687-22824-9. Paulus, Michael J., Jr. Artificial Intelligence and the Apocalyptic Imagination: Artificial Agency and Human Hope. Eugene, OR: Cascade Books (Wipf and Stock), 2023. ISBN 978-1-6667-3639-7. Snell, R. J. “Ethics Won’t Save Us from AI.” The New Atlantis 78 (Fall 2024): 67–74. Jambrek, Stanko. “Christians Facing the Challenges of Artificial Intelligence.” Kairos: Evangelical Journal of Theology 18, no. 1 (2024): 75–94. To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com
Ep 1.15: Understanding the War on Science
Send us Fan MailThis episode examines the cultural warfare against science and scientists, with special attention to the severe reductions in federal funding for research proposed by the Trump Administration. The podcast includes a financial overview of this extraordinary reduction in research funding, as well as an analysis of the risks and consequences the downsizing entails for American society. This podcast also touches on the impacts this policy shift has had for scientists and their families.The episode concludes with suggestions of ways in which persons of faith and deep spirituality could become allies of scientists. Finally, the podcast announces an exciting new initiative by the Science and Spirituality Institute to create develop worship and prayer resources that celebrate scientists and their work in scientific research and teaching. The vision is that prayers, blessings, teachings, and sermons or proclamations will be contributed to this initiative. Further, it is hoped that these resources will come from a diversity of faith traditions and spiritualities. The resources will be free for download by spiritual leaders and others who are interested.To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com
Ep 1.14: How God Loves, A Conversation with Thomas Oord
Send us Fan MailThis episode features a conversation with Thomas Oord, a leading Christian theologian in “Open and Relational Theology.” He is the Director of the Center for Open and Relational Theology and also on the doctoral faculty at Northwind Seminary. In his theology, Oord proposes that God is not aloof or impassible, but deeply relational—able to influence and be influenced by Creation. Further, he argues for an open future that is not predetermined. God knows possibilities but not certainties, allowing for real human freedom and creativity. In this theological perspective, love is central, and genuine relationships matter. Oord conceives of God’s love as “Uncontrolling,” meaning that God’s power is expressed through persuasive, non-coercive love. Divine action never overrides free will. At the intersection of science and religion, Open and Relational Theology strongly aligns with and incorporates insights from science. Also joining us for this episode is Rev. Marshall Johnson, Senior Pastor at St. Luke United Methodist Church in Omaha. Johnson discusses how he uses Open and Relational Theology to inform his pastoral ministry. He will also describe a conference that he has organized, along with collaboration from several other Omaha congregations. The conference, “A Weekend with Thomas Oord,” will be October 3-5. For more information: For more information about the conference, and to register, go to https://stlukeumc.com/events/thomas-oord-weekend/2025-10-03. For more information about the Open and Relational Theology Center, go to https://c4ort.com/. For Further Reading about Open and Relational Theology, see the following books by Thomas Oord: God After Deconstruction. With Tripp Fuller (Grasmere, Id.: SacraSage, 2024). The Death of Omnipotence and Birth of Amipotence (Grasmere, Id.: SacraSage, 2023). Pluriform Love: An Open and Relational Theology of Well-Being. (Grasmere, Id.: SacraSage, 2022). Open and Relational Theology: An Introduction to Life-Changing Ideas. (Grasmere, Id.: SacraSage, 2021). God Can’t! How to Believe in God and Love after Tragedy, Abuse, and Other Evils. (Grasmere, Id.: SacraSage, 2019). To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com
Ep 1.13: Will AI and Spirituality Co-Evolve?
Send us Fan MailSome have argued that the emergence of Artificial Intelligence (AI) represents a “fourth industrial revolution.” We still have much to learn about AI and the ultimate scope of its influence. Yet, this much is already certain, AI will have a profound impact on humanity; perhaps even re-shaping our understanding of what it means to be human. Since faith and spirituality form an important dimension of human existence, it is imperative that we begin exploring the relationship between AI, faith, and spirituality. This episode focuses on this critical relationship, with the guidance of theologian Michael J. Paulus, Jr., who believes that we are currently living “through a unique and transformative moment in human history.” In this interview, we will discuss the history of AI, along with important ethics and justice questions. In this interview, Richard Randolph also suggests that there seems to be a tendency for both fiction and nonfiction writers to cluster into two diametrically opposed camps, concerning AI and the future. On the one hand, many writers envision a coming dystopia driven by an AI out-of-control. On the other hand, others envision a coming utopia, in which AI solves all problems and humans live joyful and fulfilling lives. Although he is fundamentally optimistic about the future of AI, Dr. Paulus discusses his proposal for an “Apocalyptic Imagination,” which charts a hopeful middle course between dystopia and utopia. For Further Reading Michael J. Paulus, Jr., Artificial Intelligence and the Apocalyptic Imagination, Cascade Books, An Imprint of Wipf and Stock Publishers, 2023. Michael J. Paulus, Jr. and Michael D. Langford, co-editors, AI, Faith, and the Future: An Interdisciplinary Approach, Pickwick Publications in 2022. To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com
Ep 1.12: How Thinking about the Possibility of Extraterrestrials Deepened My Spirituality
Send us Fan MailAlthough we have not yet detected Extraterrestrial Intelligence (ETI), there’s a very strong probability that ETI does exist in the universe and that it may some day contact us. What would that mean for Earth-based faiths and spiritualities? Would the existence of ETI destroy their viability, leading to their demise? Or, would the discovery of ETI serve to deepen and enhance these Earth-based faiths and spiritualities?In this episode, we examine this question as a mental exercise, or thought experiment. Although I am convinced that confirmation of ETI existence would deepen and enhance all the world’s religions and spiritualities, I focus primarily on Christianity, which is my faith community. My hope is that how I approach this thought experiment within Christianity would serve as an analogue that others could use to think about their own religion or spirituality. For a variety of reasons, most astrobiologists and astronomers believe the ETI that contacts us would possess superior intellectual capabilities and come from a significantly more advanced society than humans on Earth. This raises an important question, if humans bear the image of the Divine, as Christians hold, would their greater intelligence mean that ETI possessed a greater Divine image? Would that mean God loves ETI more than humans because they have superior intelligence?I conclude that God would love humans just as much as ETI, when we factor in what possessing the Divine image meant to the original Hebrews. However, I also believe that the existence of superior ETI would have a profound impact in how Christians perceived humans ’relationship to non-human life on planet Earth. In other words, it calls for a radical re-thinking of Christian environmental ethics. A second question explored in this thought experiment is whether ETI would need salvation or enlightenment. From a Christian perspective, would Jesus need to be crucified multiple times on all the different planets that are home to ETI? I do not believe that would be necessary because the Divine would tailer a plan of salvation appropriate to the lived experience of ETI on its planets. I conclude that, for Christians, this should have profound implications for how we think about other Earth-based religions and spiritualities.Admittedly, this thought experiment rests on a hypothetical that ETI actually does exist in the universe. Yet, I believe this thought experiment has great value because it helps us examine our religious faith and spirituality from a completely different perspective. Reflecting from this different perspective is beneficial, if it helps us deepen and enhance our religious understandings and spiritualities. While I have worked within my spiritual home as a Christian, I believe that people following other religious traditions and spiritualities would have similar, meaningful results. For Further Reading: Steven J. Dick, editor, Many Worlds: The New Universe, Extraterrestrial Life and the Theological Implications, Templeton Foundation Press, 2000To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com
Ep 1.11: How Galileo, Darwin, and Scopes Were Hijacked by the Science–Spirituality Warfare Fallacy
Send us Fan MailIn the late 1800s, two books were published in the United States, arguing that science and religion were locked in an inevitable zero-sum conflict that would only be resolved when one winner emerged and completely vanquished its opponent. This viewpoint came to be called the “warfare thesis.” At the time of their publication, both books were severely criticized by book reviewers for shoddy scholarship and rampant unfairness. The reviewers’ critical assessments have subsequently been confirmed by historians. Yet, despite their dubious scholarship and questionable arguments, both books have cast an outsized shadow over American culture for the past 150-odd years. The myth of an inevitable, brutal conflict between science and spirituality skews the way many people think about both science and also spirituality. This fallacy provides a distorted lens through which we view other historical figures and events. In this episode, we will re-examine three historical episodes where persons of science were allegedly persecuted or condemned for their scientific research or teaching by “religious people.” Under the guidance of a historian, we will look at the actual facts, the contexts, and other influential factors in each of these episodes. The results of our investigation will prove fascinating. For Further Reading: The Warfare Between Science and Religion, The Idea that Wouldn’t Die, edited by Jeff Hardin, Ronald L. Numbers, and Ronald A. Binzley, Baltimore Johns Hokins University Press, 2018, is a collection of essays by historians that includes an examination of the two books by Draper and White, as well as a careful examination of the “Galileo affair.” To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com
Ep 1.10: Is the Universe Fine Tuned by a Higher Power?
Send us Fan MailIn this episode, we will explore an important question in scientific cosmology and spirituality: Our universe contains a number of physical constants woven into diverse equations that govern physical laws and determine the conditions for life. Over the years, physicists have marveled at how the values of these physical constants are just right for the emergence of carbon-based life, such as humans. In fact, these values appear to be perfectly fine tuned for life. Why is that? Physicists call this phenomenon the “Anthropic Principle” because it enables human life. This Anthropic Principle raises an intriguing question: Was it just a lucky coincidence that these physical constants are just right for the emergence of carbon-based life? Or, do these well calibrated physical constants provide evidence of Design? In other words, did some “Higher Power”—God, perhaps—design the universe so that life would emerge as part of the evolutionary process? This is a real puzzle. In this episode, we will examine this puzzle, with the assistance of Dr. Gintaras Duda, who is Chair of the Physics Department at Creighton University in Omaha. To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com
Ep 1.9: Math’s Unique Contribution to Spirituality
Send us Fan MailSince Ian Barbour’s pioneering work in the mid-1960s, there has been a lively dialogue between spirituality and many scientific disciplines, including physics, biology, neuroscience, and genetics. By comparison, there has been relatively little dialogue between spirituality and mathematics. In this episode, Richard explores this emerging intersection with Dr. Sarah Voss, a mathematician and ordained pastor in the Unitarian Universalist Church. They also discuss her book, A Math Mystic’s Guide to Creative Spirituality. Dr. Voss has dedicated much of her life to nurturing an emerging dialogue between math and spirituality. One of her most important contributions has been the development of “Mathaphors,” a word that she coined. Mathaphors occur when someone uses a law or insight from mathematics as a metaphor to understand some aspect of spirituality. For instance, Voss uses Snell’s rule—which describes how light bends, or refracts, when it passes from one transparent medium to another—as a Mathaphor to describe the human spirit when it experiences redemption. In addition to Mathaphors, Richard and Sarah discuss how to affirm and learn from different religions in a pluralistic society. They also reflect on mysticism as a contributing component of the mathematics and spirituality interface. Books Cited: Sarah Voss, Math Mystic’s guide to Creative Spirituality, Wipf & Stock, Eugene, Oregon, 2024. John Hick, An Interpretation of Religion: Human Response to the Transcendent, Yale University Press, New Haven, Connecticut, 1989. To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com
Ep 1.8: The Role of Ethics in the Science and Spirituality Relationship
Send us Fan MailRichard discusses the different ways ethics can inform the science and spirituality relationship. To lay the groundwork for his exploration of ethics in science and spirituality, Richard begins by drawing two very important distinctions: First, he discusses the distinction between ethics and morality. Second, he explains the distinction between secular or philosophical ethics versus religious or spiritual ethics. From there, Richard proposes a Fivefold typology for relating religious or spiritual ethics with science. The five categories are: Separation. In this category, spiritual ethics and science are kept completely separate from one another. Independent Incorporation. Here, persons of faith reach ethical conclusions based solely on their interpretation of their religious tradition’s teachings and sacred scriptures concerning a particular issue. However, after reaching their ethical position, they will then invoke scientific observation and research to buttress their ethical conclusion or make it more accessible to others who do not share the same religious perspective. The key here is that their ethical position is predetermined before they draw from science. Scientifically Informed. In this category, religious ethics incorporates scientific research and data into its ethical reflection. That is, scientific discoveries actually shape and influence the reflections, deliberations, and conclusions of spiritual ethics. Mutually Informing. In this category, spiritual ethics and science mutually inform one another at the applied level. Spiritual ethics and science mutually shape and inform one another on particular ethical questions. Two examples of mutually informing are: (1) What ethical obligations would human space explorers owe to non-sentient extraterrestrial life, if it were discovered in our solar system? and (2) What are the ethical considerations for the use of the new genetic technology, CRISPR? Foundation Integration. This category is at a deeper level than “Mutually Informing.” In this category, spiritual ethics and science mutually inform one another at the meta- or foundational level. Science and spiritual ethics will be used to inform the foundational assumptions, building blocks, and paradigms of one another. This mutual informing frequently occurs around the question, “What does it mean to be human?” For Further Information: “We need to talk about human genome editing,” (Editorial) 8 January 2025,Nature 637, 252 (2025). Exploring the Origin, Extent, and Future of Life: Philosophical, Theological and Ethical Perspectives, ed. Connie Bertka, Cambridge, England: Cambridge University Press, 2009. (This volume contains a collection of essays written by NASA scientists, as well as religious ethicists and theologians, concerning the obligations human space explorers may owe to non-sentient extraterrestrial life, if it is discovered in our Solar System. To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com
Ep 1.7: How Science Can Deepen and Strengthen Spirituality and Faith
Send us Fan MailIn this solo episode, Richard Randolph begins by acknowledging the disastrous misunderstanding prevalent in society that science and spirituality are somehow locked in a bitter winner-take-all conflict for supremacy. Against this false myth, Richard asserts that, on the contrary, most religions and spiritualities have historically supported and nurtured science as an important human endeavor. He provides evidence supporting this claim from Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Native American perspectives, and Christianity. Richard claims that science can actually deepen and strengthen our religious faith or spirituality. He provides three illustrations of this claim, based upon his personal experiences in life. These three illustrations draw from scientific cosmology, ornithology, and quantum physics. He concludes by suggesting that people from other spiritual backgrounds may also find that the sciences can actually deepen and strengthen their spiritualities, as well. For further information: Gregory Cajete, Native Science, Natural Laws of Interdependence, Santa Fe, New Mexico: Clear Light Books, 2000. Shawn Wilson, Research Is Ceremony, Indigenous Research Methods, Fernwood Publishing, 2008. For more information about Sandhill cranes, check out the Rowe Sanctuary website at: https://rowe.audubon.org/. To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com
Ep 1.6: The Seven Essential Attributes of an Authentic Spirituality
Send us Fan MailIn this solo episode, Richard Randolph does a deep dive into our understanding of spirituality. He acknowledges that people have different spiritualities. Yet at the same time, he believes that these diverse spiritualities all share a common core of seven attributes, which are essential for authentic spirituality. These seven attributes are: Openness Being part of something larger than oneself Loving kindness Forgiveness Humility Gratitude Disciplined Spiritual Practice To share your thoughts on this episode, and all episodes, email him at [email protected]. References of Books Quoted. Lisa Miller, The Awakened Brain, The Psychology of Spirituality Penguin Books, 2021. (The quotation is found on page 8.) Shawn Wilson, Research Is Ceremony, Indigenous Research Methods, Fernwood Publishing, 2008. (The quotation is found on page 91.) To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com
Ep 1.5: An Interview with Dr. Robert J. Russell, Founder of the Center for Theology and the Natural Science (CTNS)
Send us Fan MailRobert J. Russell is a very unique individual and highly qualified in the area of science and spirituality. Now retired, he has a Ph.D. in Physics from the University of California, Santa Cruz and he is an ordained pastor in the United Church of Christ.In this interview, Richard Randolph and Robert Russell discuss Christian theodicy--or, The Problem of Evil--and the theological challenge it poses for Christians. Here's the challenge: "How do we reconcile the presence of Evil in the world, if we believe that God is all-loving and all-knowing and all-powerful?"They also discuss current research into Big Bang Cosmology and prevailing cosmological scenarios concerning the destiny of the universe. Then, they look at the Christian concept of God the Creator. Christian doctrine holds that God created the universe out of nothing and that God continues as an active Creator in the present.Following the work of British cosmologist John Polkinghorne, Bob and Richard explore the possibility that God as Creator is also preparing to redeem all of Creation at the eschaton, or end time. This line of theological thought offers a unique pathway that Christians may follow as they try to reconcile the Problem of Evil in the world.In the interview, Bob also explains his proposal for “creative mutual interaction.” This methodology proposes different paths that researchers in science and theology may use to interact with each other.For more information,Robert J. Russell, Cosmology: From Alpha to Omega, Fortress Press, 2008. (See especially Chapter 10 for Bob’s methodological proposal for “Creative Mutual Interaction” (CMI).John Polkinghorne, The Faith of a Physicist, Princeton University Press, 1994.Check out the website for The Center for Theology and the Natural Sciences athttps://www.ctns.org/.(Please note that a longer, video version of this interview is available online on the Science andSpirituality YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@ScienceSpiritualityInstitue.)To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com
Ep 1.4: Genetics, CRISPR, Ethics, and Spirituality
Send us Fan MailIn this episode, Richard explores the ethical challenges and spiritual questions raised by the new CRISPR technology with Dr. Marnie Gelbart, who is Director of Programs at the Harvard Medical School’s Personal Genetics Education & Dialogue Program (PGED). Richard began with an overview of CRISPR technology, emphasizing its precision and potential cost-effectiveness. He emphasized that, in germline applications, CRISPR could potentially allow humans to control their own evolution. Richard also described the potential benefits of CRISPR in agriculture, medicine, and the environment. He discussed the recent success of Colossal Biosciences, which used the CRISPR technology to revive the dire wolf, a species that has been extinct for over 10,000 years. Although they were not able to re-create in totality the dire wolf genome, the scientists were able to create a close phenotype—that is, a close physical approximation. Marnie described her journey as a scientist, which ultimately led to her current position with PGED. She then described the recent approval of a CRISPR technology to treat the sickle cell disorder. Marnie and Richard discussed the ethical challenges and spiritual questions raised by CRISPR. She emphasized the importance of fair access to CRISPR treatments and the need to build trust in the biomedical enterprise. We also discussed the philosophical and spiritual questions raised by CRISPR, especially the risk of undermining the respect and dignity owed human persons and the potential risk for the commodification of reproduction and children. We agreed on the importance of diverse perspectives on these challenges and questions, especially recognizing the partnership between science and spiritual perspectives. For more information: Check out the PGED website at www.pged.org. (Be sure to download your free copy PGED’s new card game, “Share your stance on personal genetics.” Jennifer Doudna and Samuel Sternberg, A Crack in Creation, Gene Editing and the Unthinkable Power to Control Evolution, Boston: Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, 2017. (Dr. Doudna was co-winner of the 2020 Nobel Prize in Chemistry, awarded for her pioneering work on CRISPR.) The quotation from Nature in its 8 January 2025 Editorial reads in part, “The past few decades have shown that new technologies are being developed ahead of conversations on their ethics or social or environmental impacts. From the atomic bomb to artificial intelligence, discussions of risks, benefits, safety, regulations and transparency have had to play catch-up…[This] mistake should not be repeated[with genetic engineering].” On Dire Wolves, see: D. T. Max, “Life After Death, The genetics startup that resurrected the dire wolf” in The New Yorker, 14 April 2025, pp. 30-39, 41. Andrea Thompson, “Did Scientists Actually De-Extinct the Dire Wolf?” in Scientific American, 8 April 2025, accessed online at https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-dire-wolf-isnt-back-but-heres-what-de-extinction-tech-can-actually-do/, 16 April 2025. To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com
Ep 1.3: What Does Neuroscience Contribute to Our Understanding of the Human Soul?
Send us Fan Mail Richard’s guest for this episode is Dr. Hermina Nedelescu, a neuroscientist at the Scripps Institute. Hermina is a third-generation scientist from Romania. Her current research focuses on neural circuits and their role in emotional responses to drug use and sexual abuse. Hermina is also an Orthodox Christian, currently pursuing her Masters degree at the Center for Theology and Natural Sciences in Berkeley. In our conversation, Hermina noted that the word, “soul,” was initially a pre-Christian terms that was later adopted into Christian language. Instead of “soul,” neuroscientists more often use the terms, “mind” or “consciousness,” which are ongoing areas of neuroscience research. Hermina stressed the importance of bridging the gap between science and theology, especially in the area of consciousness research. She elaborated, emphasizing the need for dialogue between people of faith and those with a science background in order to better understand the non-physical expressions of human beings. Hermina views the “soul” as a metaphor for human experiences and ideas that are fundamental aspects of a particular individual. When asked about the idea of the soul existing beyond physical life, Hermina suggested that experiences—and accomplishments—frequently outlive individuals. Richard and Hermina believe it is important to integrate the spiritual and physical aspects of human experience. Hermina cited Fraser Watts’ research on “embodied spirituality,” which she has found helpful in her own theological thinking. The conversation concludes with a discussion of special contributions that Orthodox Christianity can make to our understanding of the human soul. In a recent book chapter, Hermina focused on the Orthodox concept of theosis, the idea that human beings have the capacity to become God. Although not universally accepted by all Christians, Richard pointed out that theosis deeply resonates with the Wesleyan notion of sanctification and growing in holiness. For more information, check out the following resources suggested by Hermina: Hermina Nedelescu, “Intelligence Amplification and the Inner Life of the Soul” in The Promise and Peril of AI and IA: New Technology Meets Religion, Theology, and Ethics, edited by Ted Peters, published in Agathon: A Journal of Ethics and Value in the Mordern World, Vol 10/2025, pp. 353-364. (Published ATF Theology, Adelaide, 2025.) Fraser Watter, A Plea for Embodied Spirituality: The Role of the Body in Religion, London: SCM Press, 2021. Dumitru Staniloae, Orthodox Dogmatic Theology: The Experience of God, Vol. 1: Revelation and Knowledge of the Triune God, Brookline, MA: Holy Cross Orthodox Press, 1998. Christof Koch, https://alleninstitute.org/news/exploring-the-minds-mysteries-with-christof-koch/ To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com
Ep 1.2: Is Society Developing a Religious Faith in Science and Technology? UFOs as a Case Study
Send us Fan MailIn this episode, Richard talks with Ted Peters about UFOs as a cultural phenomenon. A Lutheran theologian, Ted Peters has been a central figure in the long-standing dialogue among scientists, philosophers, and theologians. He has a long-standing interest in UFOs—now called UAPs (Unidentified Aerial Phenomena)—dating back to his childhood. Although many of us tend to dismiss UAP believers as kooks, Ted stresses that they tend to take science and technology very seriously. We also noted the publication of an article in 2017 in The New York Times, which has contributed to more serious academic investigation into UAPs. At the same time, Ted thinks that UAP believers may elevate science and technology too much, seeing them as the only means of saving society from self-destruction. The logic goes like this, if earthly science and technology cannot provide salvation, then perhaps an advanced science and technology from another planet will save us. Since the 12th century, thinkers have debated whether the discovery of intelligent extraterrestrial life would undermine—perhaps even destroy—traditional religions. Ted did extensive surveying on this question. He discovered that most religious people, regardless of tradition—Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, etc.—do not see the prospect of extraterrestrial intelligence as a challenge to their faith. Our discussion included the decline in public trust for science and technology. He emphasized the need for religious people to support scientists and defend evidence-based science. He also highlighted the battle between good, evidence-based science versus bad, “alternative” science that is not evidence-based. At the same time, Ted asserted that most people continue to trust good, evidence-based science. He noted that even the anti-vaccine movement grew out of an article published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal 25 years ago. Unfortunately, the article’s conclusions were deeply flawed and the journal subsequently retracted it. But, at the point, the anti-vaccine movement had already gathered its own momentum. At the end of our interview, Ted stressed the difference between UAPs and the legitimate discussions in Astrobiology concerning the ethical and theological implications that would arise, if extraterrestrial life is discovered. For further information, check out these sources. Follow Ted’s blog, “The Voice of Public Theology,” on Substack, www.tedp.substack.com/ Ted’s book, UFOs: God's Chariots?: Spirituality, Ancient Aliens, and Religious Yearnings in the Age of Extraterrestrials, published by Weiser, 2014. Helene Cooper, Ralph Blumenthal, Leslie Kean, “Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious UFO Program,” The New York Times, 16 December 2017. To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com
Ep 1.1: An Interview with Dr. Katy Hinman from the Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS).
Send us Fan MailIn this episode, Richard interviewed Dr. Katy Hinman who is Director of the Dialogue on Science, Ethics, and Religion (DoSER) program at AAAS. Katy’s background uniquely qualifies her to lead the DoSER program. She has a Ph.D. in Ecology and Evolution from Stony Brook University, and she is an ordained pastor in the United Methodist Church. Katy served churches in Georgia for nine years before joining DoSER. In the interview, we discussed the work of the DoSER program, which is celebrating its 30th Anniversary this year. Among science and religion organizations, DoSER is distinctive in that it is a science-based organization. Katy and Richard discussed the common misunderstanding that science and religion are locked in an inevitable conflict. Katy stressed that this perceived conflict does not reflect personal experiences, including the experiences of many scientists. Unfortunately this popular misunderstanding has suppressed the science and religion discussion because people lack the opportunities or permission to talk about their actual experiences. Katy believes it is important to create spaces for open conversations about science and faith. For more information, check out the DoSER websites at aaas.org/DoSER and ScienceReligionDialogue.org. To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com
Welcome to Science & Spirituality for the Curious
Send us Fan MailTo financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com